If you're using DosBox now, a device capable of loading SoundFonts (such as an X-Fi or Fluidsynth) should provide a comparable (if not better) listening experience. DosBox can pass the midi data straight to the OS therefore reaping the benefits of your card, so, instead of spending time and money on tracking down and obtaining a new ISA motherboard, why not spend it on comparable modern hardware? I have an X-Fi and am quite pleased with the results when using General Midi.

in Win9x which DOSBox is apparently plan on emulating in the future

Nope.

RAMChYLD wrote:

Using a soundfont on the host is not feasible for anyone not having a card or device that supports it, and I'm sure this workaround falls flat on it's face if a game does load it's own custom soundfonts for it's BGM (sure, no such games are known to exist in MS-DOS. But there are a noticeable amount of them in Win9x which DOSBox is apparently plan on emulating in the future- Final Fantasy VII and VIII comes to mind, not to mention tools like the Vienna Soundfont editor). As such I ask that the developers of DosBOX reconsider their decision to not implement AWE 32 audio support.

FFVIII used Directmusic with its own DLS and synthesized all music in software. FFVII uses awe and has its own soundfont indeed, but..... the "noticable amount" is actually quite lower than you're arguing for. Doesn't help that FF7's the only Windows game I can name off the top of my head that loads new soundfont banks for the AWE.

AWE-native DOS games with custom samples is slightly more plentiful, some used the EMU8K as a sound effect mixer, like this

If you miss having an AWE, i'd use this
BASSMIDI Soundfont MIDI Synthesiser Driver for Windows XP/Vista/7

Well, the point is, I'll never get to hear such games shine in their full glory ever again. Especially those which uses the AWE for audio and mixing as you said.

Ah well, thanks anyway. Guess I'll need to try to move on.

leileilol wrote:

FFVIII used Directmusic with its own DLS and synthesized all music in software. FFVII uses awe and has its own soundfont indeed, […]
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FFVIII used Directmusic with its own DLS and synthesized all music in software. FFVII uses awe and has its own soundfont indeed, but..... the "noticable amount" is actually quite lower than you're arguing for. Doesn't help that FF7's the only Windows game I can name off the top of my head that loads new soundfont banks for the AWE.

AWE-native DOS games with custom samples is slightly more plentiful, some used the EMU8K as a sound effect mixer, like this

If you miss having an AWE, i'd use this
BASSMIDI Soundfont MIDI Synthesiser Driver for Windows XP/Vista/7

FFVII also included, at least as far as I recall a Yamaha XG Soft-Synth that sounded great (won't work with Windows 7...probably).

Sorry, I didn't notice this topic when I searched. Yes, supporting a simulation of the sfman32.dll and aweman32.dll interfaces could help with a higher level emulation of the devices, using either Fluidsynth, or the much more capable BASSMIDI (Ian Luck's library, which is ported to numerous platforms, and free for use in freeware).

And yes, FFVII was capable of using XG synthesizers, and some of the XG MIDI files did sound pretty neat on an XG synthesizer, even an S-YXG50 software synthesizer, such as the VST instrument. However, that mode did not support the lyrical bits from One Winged Angel. The only mode which supported that was the SoundFont mode, which basically used the same instrument patches as the PlayStation version, except for a few cases where they used ROM samples.

FFVIII went a step further, and included an XG capable DirectMusic synthesizer that was unfortunately tied to a kernel driver that only worked on Windows 9x. They also bundled a minimal copy of DLS by XG, including only the samples used by the game's DirectMusic segments.

and since this thread, AWE32 emulation creeped into PCem (supporting games that load SBKs such as Eradicator). Requires a rom dump to operate however, so there's that familiar obstacle. Whether that can be ported to DOSBox is another thing altogether.

Conveniently, the emu10k1, 10k2, and 20k drivers all come with a handy copy of the AWE32 ROM.

EDIT: Darn, Windows only.

Well, I've sort of given up on hoping for it to go to DOSBox actually. I've pretty much decided that nothing can beat the real deal and got a new retrogaming machine built since then and put the old AWE64 back into action.

kode54 wrote:

However, that mode did not support the lyrical bits from One Winged Angel. The only mode which supported that was the SoundFont mode, which basically used the same instrument patches as the PlayStation version, except for a few cases where they used ROM samples.

This. This is actually what I was arguing for, the main reason I want to see AWE32 emulation in DOSBox since Win95 emulation is already in there experimentally. In General Midi, Directsound and XG mode One Winged Angel has no lyrics, it only has lyrics in AWE mode because the vocals are encoded in the custom SoundFonts. Feeding the game's music to Fluidsynth or a X-Fi just doesn't cut it because it won't play the vocals in One Winged Angel. The only way you're gonna get the vocals in the game is via an AWE32/64 card. Either that or buy the HD remake on Steam. Or play the PS1 version in an emulator (which is legally questionable).

One wonders why it doesn't also support the Gravis Ultrasound tho. Or other wavetable-and-patch based cards like the Trident 4DWave. But the fact stands- said game only plays the vocals in One Winged Angel on an AWE card.

I'm still hoping for eventual DOSBox support. DOSBox does such a great job of implementing other DOS era hardware, I wish it would support AWE32. I understand that the need for such is limited since most titles supporting AWE32 sound also support other hardware, but I miss being able to load up mods into my AWE32 with Cubic Player (hrm, at least that's what I think I used to use to do so).

Well, I just found another game that leverages on my AWE. So EA was giving away SimCity 2000 Special Edition as reported. I tried it on my usual gaming PC out of EA's provided DOSBox setup and the music sounded flat as one would expect from a SB clone with an OPL3 synth. I managed to copy the game to my retro box, and when I reconfigure it for AWE and ran it, the music blew me away. I also noticed what I think are soundfonts in the game's directory (GM1.BNK and GM2.BNK), therefore I think this game uses soundfonts as well. Shame that DOSBox just couldn't take advantage of them and thus ended up with inferior music.

Try General MIDI.

RAMChYLD wrote:

I also noticed what I think are soundfonts in the game's directory (GM1.BNK and GM2.BNK), therefore I think this game uses soundfonts as well.

Both are 24kb so likely not. They are only used by the Aria Synthesizer driver.

Well, General MIDI is OPL3 soundfont I think? The music certainly sounded better when the game was reconfigured for AWE audio and run on my retro box with an AWE64 card present. The pianos certainly sounded richer on a real PC with an AWE card compared to in DOSBox. If it really is the OPL3, maybe the AWE64's OPL3 sounds better? Even if it doesn't use any soundfont, the AWE64 has a 1MB ROM for it's default GM wavetable, which still sounds more realistic than the OPL3, and maybe the game is using that instead?

I have to figure out if the game is calling 0x620 (E-Mu) or 0x388 (OPL3). But either way, the music sounds much better than DOSBox's OPL.

As far as I recall the AWE cards used wavetable synths...hence...use general midi (though the Windows built in one will most likely disappoint).
OPL3 is not a soundfont but an FM synthesis chip.

bloodbat wrote:

As far as I recall the AWE cards used wavetable synths...hence...use general midi (though the Windows built in one will most likely disappoint).
OPL3 is not a soundfont but an FM synthesis chip.

Unfortunately that's typically not the case...
"The AWE32 didn't use its MPU-401 port to access the EMU8000—Creative decided to expose the EMU8000's registers directly, through three sets of non-standard ports, and interpret MIDI commands in software on the host CPU. As with the Gravis Ultrasound, software designers had to write special AWE32 support into their programs."
...so I believe, unless you've set AWEUTIL to emulate GM, typically GM audio in games didn't work.

The AWE certainly had a rich feature set of specific wavetable functions no other card on the market had (floating point interpolation, hardware filters, chorus and reverb) and a lot of customizable DSP functionality. But… most programmers never used the advanced capabilities of the AWE. To easy the development of games, software houses typically let an artist compose General MIDI music, and programmed a General MIDI playback routine for each available sound card (OPL, GUS, AWE, external connected MIDI hardware) so the work only had to be done once. The rise of Windows games quickened the switch to General MIDI as Windows provided a relatively easy built-in API to access any supported hardware with one programming model.

kolano wrote:

Unfortunately that's typically not the case... "The AWE32 didn't use its MPU-401 port to access the EMU8000—Creative decided to […]
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bloodbat wrote:

As far as I recall the AWE cards used wavetable synths...hence...use general midi (though the Windows built in one will most likely disappoint).
OPL3 is not a soundfont but an FM synthesis chip.

Unfortunately that's typically not the case...
"The AWE32 didn't use its MPU-401 port to access the EMU8000—Creative decided to expose the EMU8000's registers directly, through three sets of non-standard ports, and interpret MIDI commands in software on the host CPU. As with the Gravis Ultrasound, software designers had to write special AWE32 support into their programs."
...so I believe, unless you've set AWEUTIL to emulate GM, typically GM audio in games didn't work.

I meant to use general MIDI to have a similar experience, not that the cards used general MIDI as is (the important part being the bit about wavetable).