VOGONS


What's the attraction of legacy hardware?

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Reply 40 of 87, by MaxWar

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SquallStrife wrote:

Anyone else notice that the OP is long gone? 😜

Hehehe, this happens to alot of threads.

A little while ago someone started a thread on Assembler game asking for assistance about how he though his controller fried his N64 power supply.

This spawned 2 pages about the differences between versions of the N64 psu and how they could react to a short on the 5v rail. The OP never replied after is initial post.

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Reply 41 of 87, by tincup

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For me legacy hardware is attractive because:
1. Retro rigs nicely complement a game collection that spans more than one or two OS/hardware cycles.

2. 3dfx/Glide and Rendition accelleration.

2. Sidestep niggling issues of running many early Win9x 3D games on modern systems.

3. ie, being able to say goodbye to the black art of compatabilty patches, workarounds, cludges and dumb luck associated with the above, and that need to be re-invented with every new OS or harware environment...

4. Design and assembly of unique computers is fun and rewarding, not terribly expensive if you can avoid the exotic stuff. And it's also a pretty compact and clean bobby for the space challenged urban dweller.

DosBox is the essential fallback, the catch-all for running games that do not fit the profile of any retro rig in one's stable. But as my focus is trained mostly on early accerated games and simulations, the issues surrounding early dos is not of central importance.

Reply 42 of 87, by Malik

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I think most of us who build these systems are those who were there actively involved (or at least, admired) in and during the pinnacle of DOS machines and DOS gaming. Most of us were probably students back then, depending on the miracle that our parents might buy us the brand new shiny 286 back then. Some of the components were simply beyond our reach for some.

Now that we have aged, and started working, these components are easier to get (though some are still expensive) and it gets more and more interesting to experiment with the different hardware for use in DOS especially.

For example, the MT-32. It was the "dream" sound add-on for a PC back then. (And still is.) But it was beyond my farthest reach those days. Games nowadays have the same music and sounds, regardless of the sound cards. All windows games sound the same. But not in those days. Games were programmed to take advantage of individual sound components. The Secret of Monkey Island, for example, sounds differently in FM mode and MT-32 mode. It makes me wonder - "wow this game has these sounds and music too!

Even though a real MT-32 can be successfully used in the latest PC with the USB-MIDI cable and Dosbox, some of us tend to still build an actual 486 or Pentium system, based on our nostalgic feelings.

Sometimes, the process of pushing all possible TSRs to upper memory and trying to squeeze out the maximum conventional memory possible from a particular setup, in itself, is like playing half of the game.

Seeing an AWE32 or SB16/Pro/C/MS card and a Roland MPU-401 (or 100% compatible) sitting side by side, pumping out sheer, raw, classic audio goodness into a powered "sub-woofered" speaker setup is something that is unmatched.

Some tend to get everything period specific. For me, since I prefer slimmer and smaller deskspace for a monitor, I prefer to use a LCD screen. Each builder will have his or her own characteristics and preferences.

And finally, if there are means to relive our hobbies of building them, why not. 😀

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Reply 43 of 87, by batracio

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Emulation is to real hardware as masturbation is to real sex. Yeah, many times you just want a cheap and easy way of playing your game, and don't want to go through the hassle of finding the proper hardware, the proper configuration for that particular game, and all kind of troubles because your tool sometimes doesn't boot, or it doesn't fully load, or the only hardware you could find is not good enough for your requirements, or it doesn't do what you expected it to do, or your game runs too fast and ruins the experience... Emulation makes everything faster, simpler and easier, but let's face it, it's not the real thing.

Reply 44 of 87, by Mau1wurf1977

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Quick question because Malik mentioned sub-woofer. Did they exist back in the days of Sound Blaster and MT-32?

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Reply 45 of 87, by Mike 01Hawk

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swaaye wrote:

I tend to prefer emulation with old consoles because the real hardware doesn't mesh well with modern TVs. It's also nice to eliminate CDROM noise and load times.

Although N64 emulation is still so poor that I've kept that console.

Swaaye old buddy!!! Long time for me to get back on the board.

Anyway, what the heck are you talking about for N64???

Here's quote I posted on another board when I was dabbling in N64 emulation (and others) back in 2011:

SNES Snes9x is working great video/audio wise. […]
Show full quote

SNES
Snes9x is working great video/audio wise.

Visually I couldn't get an image processor that was 'just right' like how I remembered my games. It would either look way to pixelated or way to 'artsty / stain glass' smooth. But then I tried "TV Scan Lines" and BOOM! Looks fuggen AWESOME! Just like the retro days on my 13 inch CRT

NES
Nestopia's NTSC image processing is farking SPOT ON... looks hella awesome retro. Blurry and muted colors and all! Controls seem good as well. There's still some visual tearing (vsync not enabled?) that I'm still messing around with.

N64
O. M. G.

PJ64 + HDMI = AMAZING!

The colors are amazingly vibrant and the edges are CRISP. Everything POPS! This is how N64 SHOULD have looked!!!

I was doing A/B comparisons between F-Zero X on my CRT thru PJ64 and also thru the real deal hooked up via a S-Vid. No comparison AT ALL. Emulation FTW. The HDMI boost + whatever the heck the emulator is doing, it works!

The May Flash USB device works flawlessly as well: http://www.amazon.com/May-Flash-Controller-Ad … 4/dp/B002B9FIUU

It's a shame though there's only a handful of top shelf games for the N64.

Can't wait for some time to break out Doom 64. As I recall it was much darker/moody compared to it's MS-DOS brother.

So have you tried PJ64?

Right now the only console I have hooked up is my Xbox360. Reduced clutter FTW.

As for PC hardware vs emulation. I loved retrogasming out on Ebay buying up all the hardware I could find. Growing up with SoundBlaster in the 90s, I didn't have the money nor the knowledge to know that I was missing out on this AWESOME company called Roland. It really is a shame how SoundBlaster really F'd over the PC sound industry. They really suck.

So I just wanted to make the "BEST" PC hardware box I could. I even have a silent PSU and silent fans. It's awesome.

For me I just like to tinker on the front end /hard ware side of things. I really don't enjoy playing my games of my youth over again. Yeah, I'm messed up in the head like that. That's like building a hot rod but then not racing it. 🤣

Dell Optiplex Gxpro: Built solely so I could re-live my SB16 days properly with newly acquired sound pieces: MT-32, SCB-55, and DB50xg 😀

Reply 46 of 87, by Mike 01Hawk

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Quick question because Malik mentioned sub-woofer. Did they exist back in the days of Sound Blaster and MT-32?

They existed but most likely not stand alone for your average household.

Back in the day (late 80s, early 90s) you have to remember that TVs of the time only had the integrated mono speaker within the TV for sound. There was none of this 5.1, 7.1 nonsense. You'd have a dedicated 2.0 home stereo to play tape, vinyl, radio. But you never thought of or even knew how to hook it up to the TV for your average household.

So take that thought, but now think of a PC, a dedicated device in some other room in the house. You were lucky enough if you had itty bitty 2.0 desktop speakers. You basically said "yup, I have some beeps and bops, I'm SET!!!!"

Now granted of course there were a few people back in the day that actually had a dedicated big ass stereo system for their PC sounds. My highschool buddy's dad was a HUGE geek. He had an entire room devoted to his PC. He also had some "monkey coffin" big full range speakers hooked up to his computer via an amp.

I must say my jaw hit the floor the first time my buddy fired up Lands of Lore and in the opening cut scene the horse galloped across the draw bridge and the whole room shook. I was on Cloud 9.

This is the main reason I'm retroing hardware, is for the sound/music and to play on a nice 2.1 system. It's what I really missed out on back in the day.

Dell Optiplex Gxpro: Built solely so I could re-live my SB16 days properly with newly acquired sound pieces: MT-32, SCB-55, and DB50xg 😀

Reply 47 of 87, by sliderider

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Part of it comes from seeing just how far you can push the old hardware. That's why we have 486 speed runs and things like that. Part of it is also being able to play around with hardware that you never could have afforded back when it was new because it cost too much money. You can build a top of the line system from almost any given year for pocket change now.

Reply 48 of 87, by sgt76

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sliderider wrote:

You can build a top of the line system from almost any given year for pocket change now.

Yes, and it's a dangerous path. Before long your life will be taken over by a series of neverending quests to build the best configurations from every possible year.

Reply 49 of 87, by Tetrium

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sgt76 wrote:
sliderider wrote:

You can build a top of the line system from almost any given year for pocket change now.

Yes, and it's a dangerous path. Before long your life will be taken over by a series of neverending quests to build the best configurations from every possible year.

I prefer to build the best configuration by socket instead of year 😜
But then again, I also build systems that were kinda optimal.

And sgt76 is right, at some point it's enough. If you have the room (like me) then no sweat, just don't let it overtake your life completely.

What I do like about old hardware is that I can turn a seemingly obsolete pile of parts into useful systems 😀

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Reply 50 of 87, by GXL750

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I just like being able to, for next to no money, build the same computers I wanted bad back in my days as a kid. Also, it's kind of fun to grab the nicest parts that would have been on a retail store shelf in a given year and see just what kind of PC could have been built in given year provided money was no object. Just what was possible that year?

Reply 51 of 87, by SquallStrife

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Mike 01Hawk wrote:

Here's quote I posted on another board when I was dabbling in N64 emulation (and others) back in 2011:

SNES
Snes9x is working great video/audio wise.

Visually I couldn't get an image processor that was 'just right' like how I remembered my games. It would either look way to pixelated or way to 'artsty / stain glass' smooth. But then I tried "TV Scan Lines" and BOOM! Looks fuggen AWESOME! Just like the retro days on my 13 inch CRT

This article is about a year old: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accurac … -snes-emulator/

This one too:
http://byuu.org/bsnes/accuracy

SNES emulation is pretty good, but it's not quite there. We're just recently getting the computing power to emulate a SNES accurately.

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Reply 52 of 87, by NamelessPlayer

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You'd think that a retro computing hobby is dirt cheap at first, but if you're looking for some very specific hardware, it'll cost you more than you expected.

I will eat my hat if you win this for under $100. Apparently, there are more than a few eBay bidders out there who will pay modern motherboard money just to get a Socket 478/875P board with an ISA slot. (845P boards with ISA slots sell for much less, but then you can't run 800 MHz FSB P4s.)

Then there are the sound card variants. Most are dirt cheap...unless it's a Gravis Ultrasound or a Roland LAPC-I, in which case you're going to pay out the nose trying to outbid other retrocomputing enthusiasts who want those cards more than you do.

Reply 53 of 87, by badmojo

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I've never even seen a LAPC-I listed on eBay, very rare indeed.

From time to time I've gotten carried away and spent big bucks on retro stuff (which for me is > $100), and I've always felt a little bit dirty afterwards. The components I enjoy the most are the ones I've found for free or for a few bucks at markets, etc.

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Reply 54 of 87, by m1919

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Retro computing started out as a fairly cheap hobby for me. At least it was when I nabbed an unused Tyan Tiger 100 for $30 bucks shipped.

Then I remembered how cool the P2 and P3 Xeons were and how I always wanted one of those rigs. Then my downward spiral into the addiction of retro computing started and now I often consider items within the 80-100 dollar range to be a bargain considering how hard to find some of this Slot-2 stuff is.

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Reply 55 of 87, by Mau1wurf1977

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badmofo wrote:

I've never even seen a LAPC-I listed on eBay, very rare indeed.

I think I have seen it once...

I've seen quite a few MT-32s on eBay Australia and even a MT-100 which I was able to get.

But all my other Roland gear came from Japan, not eBay. I went nuts, but wanted to fulfil my childhood dream of owning these Roland MIDI modules. Spent heaps, but you can't put a price on things like this.

It was the only time I spent big however. The other bits didn't cost much individually, although they all add up no doubt. And of course you make a real bargain once in a while as well.

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Reply 56 of 87, by DonutKing

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I scored an LAPC-I, RAP-10, SB 2.0, SB Pro and a couple of SB16's in a lot for about $210 from USA.

I've no idea why it was so cheap...

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Reply 57 of 87, by badmojo

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Wow that was a score! How long ago was that?

I've gotten the odd bargain, but they're few and far between. Everyone's an expert these days thanks to the interwebs.

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Reply 58 of 87, by jmrydholm

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Here are my own "Ten Best Reasons" 😀

1.) 3dfx
2.) The sexy, faded beige case
3.) Pixels are awesome
4.) The quiet, whirring sound the old PATA drive makes is cool
5.) ISA bus cards are fun to jumper
6.) Gravis Ultrasound, AWE32, and Roland oh my
7.) It doubles as a horizontal footrest and warms them in cold weather
8.) It will give me an opportunity to show my son a piece of computing history one day
9.) Wide variety of fun, cheap games plus good memories
10.) 3dfx

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Reply 59 of 87, by jmrydholm

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NamelessPlayer wrote:

Then there are the sound card variants. Most are dirt cheap...unless it's a Gravis Ultrasound or a Roland LAPC-I, in which case you're going to pay out the nose trying to outbid other retrocomputing enthusiasts who want those cards more than you do.

I got my Ultrasound 2.1 off ebay for around $40 bucks. Not uber-cheap, but not terrible. I've seen those go for $100 and up! I have two free Dip-RAM sockets though, I can't seem to find the right ones.

"The height of strategy, is to attack your opponent’s strategy” -Sun Tzu
“Make your fighting stance, your everyday stance and make your everyday stance, your fighting stance.” - Musashi
SET BLASTER = A220 I5 D1 T3 P330 E620 OMG WTF BBQ