How about this:
HDD0: FAT16 Win98SE
then HDD0: NTFS WinNT4 on a second partition, boot loader gets installed on Win98SE partition with option to boot other OS

unplug HDD0, change BIOS boot drive
HDD1: Win2K NTFS
HDD1: same or different partition WinXP, you'll have both options in bootmenu
replug HDD0

use two step choice, BIOS for choosing HDD and then bootmenu

elianda wrote:

How about this: HDD0: FAT16 Win98SE then HDD0: NTFS WinNT4 on a second partition, boot loader gets installed on Win98SE partitio […]
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How about this:
HDD0: FAT16 Win98SE
then HDD0: NTFS WinNT4 on a second partition, boot loader gets installed on Win98SE partition with option to boot other OS

unplug HDD0, change BIOS boot drive
HDD1: Win2K NTFS
HDD1: same or different partition WinXP, you'll have both options in bootmenu
replug HDD0

use two step choice, BIOS for choosing HDD and then bootmenu

I only have 1 HDD to use though. I have a few systems I want to get setup like this and don't want to source two HDD's for each system.

The main issue with testing out different configurations is that it takes forever and a lot of patience to reinstall several OS's to find out it doesn't work.

I think a better solution would be to network boot. I've been playing around with it. Windows does not care for it much, but linux doesnt seem to care. I had 2k, xp and a "utilities cd" all co-existing, but I never got win98 to cooperate. its probably doable, jsut beyond what I know about 98 and beyond the limits I will play with software. I HATE playing with software. I would rather get teh flu than fix anything in software that takes longer than 10 minutes to fix.

I would create four primary partitions, install 98SE to the first partition, then NT4, 2K, XP, in that order, on successive partitions, taking care to never convert anything, only format the destination partition for each version. I'm pretty sure newer NTLDR's will boot older versions of Windows.

Well, then the partitions in front of the specific OS have to be so small that the NTLDR is able to load the kernel with the mass storage driver that supports then 120GB (or more).
See also http://winhlp.com/WnLargePartition.htm

So just to give an example how to install NT4 on a 120 GB disk single partition:
Use a second NT4 installation with SP6a to format the 120 GB partition with NTFS (V1.2 of course)
Take a second HDD with FAT16 and put the NT4 I386 folder there for installation.
Put the 120 GB preformatted disk as HDD0 into the system and the FAT16 disk as HDD1. Set boot to Disk A:, then HDD0.
Boot DOS from disk and install NT4 from HDD1 on HDD0.
After installation never move ntoskrnl.exe (and other crucial boot files) beyond the system specific INT13h barrier.
(note: You can not install from CD with a DOS boot disk as NT4 setup requires a FAT16 partition for setup files.)

As for Win2K converting NT4s NTFS to 3.0 - don't do it.
If you do it make sure to have NT4s NTFS driver updated before, otherwise you end up with a unbootable system. You have to install at least SP4 in NT4 to have the updated NTFS driver, recommended of course is to go straight to SP6a.
Still, you probably never really need the new NTFS features when using NT4, there are even some disadvantages as chkdsk and defrag from NT4 not working anymore.

Could this be made easier if you created an NT4 setup disk with SP6a slipstreamed in advance?

I must admit my earlier post was a guess, I've never tried something so ambitious! 😀

There exists only an SP1 version of NT4 installation.

elianda wrote:

There exists only an SP1 version of NT4 installation.

From Microsoft, yeah, but you can create your own installation disk with SP6a pre-installed.

There's a guide on MSFN on how to do that, and also incorporate a bunch of post-SP6a hotfixes on to your installation disk.

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/109439-slipst … aming-nt4-sp6a/

The process is similar for Windows 2000 and XP, but Vista onwards uses a totally different approach.

I'm just going to throw this idea on the wall and see if it sticks, but this sounds like a great use for a compact flash based hard drive. They make front panels that let you swap cards without opening the case. If you have one per OS, that might be another option. You could use something like diskimage to store the origional and if something went worng, restoring the card to new would be very easy. or making duplicates. 2gb cards are relatively cheap, xp might need a 4g card, but the idea is out there.

Have you read these:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306559

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/217210

Have you considered a bootloader? Grub, Plop?

arent Compact flash cards quite a bit expensive compared to something like a 30gb ssd plus a Jmicron based IDE to sata adapter?

subhuman@xgtx wrote:

arent Compact flash cards quite a bit expensive compared to something like a 30gb ssd plus a Jmicron based IDE to sata adapter?

there are LOTS on ebay. I saw a lot of 5, name brand FAST 4gb cards for $35. Prices go up and down like a roller coaster, but it would be convient.

ratfink wrote:

Have you read these:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306559

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/217210

Saw these previously. Microsoft doesn't go into any detail about installing Win98, NT4, then W2K. If they used the default methods provided from the installation discs, they'd find that NT4 is no longer bootable once W2K gets installed. Finding out why would probably help solve my problems. It only seems to work by default if each partition is 2 GB, FAT16.

Hatta wrote:

Have you considered a bootloader? Grub, Plop?

Refer to OP. I tried the System Commander 2000 boot loader.

Windows NT 4.0 wants to place its ntldr in the first 2 GB of the first HDD, so it should be installed on the HDD's first "stretch of land", so to speak. I think the trick may be to create 4 primary partitions. Set it up so that the first partition is NTFS 4 GB (for NT4), second is FAT32 8 GB (for Win98), third is NTFS 8 GB (for W2K), and fourth is NTFS 12 GB (for XP). Win98 would be installed first and it cannot see the NTFS partition. Then I'd install NT4. NT4 setup would probably need to delete the NTFS partition and format it as FAT16 4 GB. Once NT4 is installed, I can convert the partition back to NTFS. Does Win98SE need to be installed on the first 2 GB of HDD space? Of not, it should still boot after installation. After installing NT4, then W2K, I am hoping that W2K's boot loader still lets NT4 boot. If not, then I'm still having the same problem. I could try leaving NT4 as FAT16 to see if it is the NTFS upgrade issue that is causing NT4 not to load.

luckybob wrote:

I'm just going to throw this idea on the wall and see if it sticks, but this sounds like a great use for a compact flash based hard drive. They make front panels that let you swap cards without opening the case. If you have one per OS, that might be another option. You could use something like diskimage to store the origional and if something went worng, restoring the card to new would be very easy. or making duplicates. 2gb cards are relatively cheap, xp might need a 4g card, but the idea is out there.

It would require way too many CF cards to setup 5 systems like this with 4 OS's each. I don't really like flipping around CF cards too much either. The HDD's are Ultra 100/133 and I think would be well suited. The CF card idea wouldn't be too bad if I was only playing with 1 system, but I think the max transfer rate on those 4/8 GB cards is 20 MB/s, which is much slower than ATA Ultra 100.

I am making some progress on this. It has been a tiring journey into Microsoft Widows.

So far, I have this working, and in this order/layout on the HDD:

NT4, 4 GB, NTFS (start out as FAT, convert to NTFS later on in W2K)
Win98SE, 8 GB, FAT32 (installed first)
W2K, 8 GB, FAT32
XP (haven't tried yet)

W2K would no longer boot after conversion to NTFS. Installing W2K with NTFS from the beginning also resulted in no boot. The system hangs after verifying DMI pool data in both cases. It boots fine with FAT32 though. Any idea how to fix this? Do bootable NTFS partitions need to be infront of the 8 GB boundary?

I setup the W2K partition after the Win98SE partition because I figured Windows 98SE, being rather DOS-dependent, needs to be infront of the 8 GB boundary. Perhaps I should install W2K between NT4 and Win98SE?

I am using Partition Magic 8.0 to setup partitions. It hides the partitions not being booted to, however you need to boot into Windows/Partition Magic to change which OS you want to boot. You can also use a boot diskette. I figure once I get this all figured out, some boot loader can be installed on the HDD to do this for me.

Although PQBoot, which is part of Partition Magic, hides non-booted partitions, I found I could unhide each partition for all 3 OS's and they would still boot. This gives you access to the other OS's partitions, which I want.

Based on my tests, it seems like the W2K partition when formatted as NTFS needs to come after the NT4 partition to beat the 8 GB boundary. Win98SE, which begins at the 12 GB boundary, still loads fine when set active. The system is now setup in this sequence on the HDD:

NT4, 4 GB, NTFS (installed second; must start as FAT and convert to NTFS later)
W2K, 8 GB, NTFS (installed third)
Win98SE, 8 GB, FAT32 (installed first)
[XP, 12 GB, FAT32 or NTFS - next]
[Easy to use boot loader to set active partition - next next]

This is probably a good time to make a clone of this disc incase I bugger up with the XP installation. There is no spot to place XP whereby both W2K and XP can have the start of the HDD not exceed the 8 GB boundary. I hope XP has a work around for this, or I guess I'll have to leave XP as FAT32.

Does anyone have any boot loaders to recommendations which can simply set which primary partition to active while not hiding the other partitions? I was gonig to try System Commander 2000 again. My experinece with GRUB and Linux/Windows many years ago was that it was very difficult to customise the way OS's are displayed on the loader screen. I'm not sure if this has changed.

Also, when I leave the W2K partition active, I am able to put in the NT4 option to the boot loader and have it boot fine. Win98 doesn't want to boot from the W2k boot loader though. Does anyone know how to add a Win98SE partition to the W2K boot loader when the Win98SE partition is set to primary? I think I can add it to the W2k boot loader if I convert it to a logical/extended drive off of the W2K partition. This way, the Win98SE partition is already active, right?

The way ntldr would boot Win98 is the same way it would boot DOS. You need to capture an image of the boot sector of the DOS partition (the first 512 bytes), then you just add it to boot.ini like this (e.g.):

c:\bootsect.w98="Windows 98"

What utility do you use to capture an image of the Win98 boot sector?

Personally, I'd boot a Linux live CD and use the dd utility. This naturally depends on the computer being able to boot from a CD, and you being confident with using a Linux OS at the command line.

The command would be:

dd if=/dev/hda3 of=bootsect.w98 bs=512 count=1

Where "hda3" means IDE drive a (primary master) partition 3. This will be different is SATA is in use, or the disk is in a USB caddy.

I think you may be able to use RawWrite for Windows, let me check.

http://www.chrysocome.net/rawwrite

Edit: No, looks like that only works for floppies. I'll try to find an alternative that can be used in Windows.

Edit2: Ah, I only had to scroll down the page a little.

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

You'll need to check out "dd --list" to find the partition you're after, then (e.g.):

dd if=\\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0 of=bootsect.w98 bs=512 count=1