An OEM 486 system is still reasonably priced compared to what you would pay for the parts to assemble it yourself.

Just in case it is not clear what I'm trying to accomplish, I thought I would clarify:

1. Consolidate some of my retro systems (perhaps get rid of the lesser 486 altogether and just keep the P-Pro, or maybe even just keep the dual Athlon (although this is less appealing, as that box has no ISA slots for older soundcards like AWE 32 or GUS

2. Have a system that is fast for mid to late 90s gaming. For really old stuff I have my Tandy, I don't care too much about the stuff that falls in the gap and for the stuff that I do care about, it either isn't speed sensitive or I'm not opposed to running it in Dos Box. The stuff that is touchy (Wing Commander or Ultima 7, looking at you here) I don't feel like setting up 2 different systems just to run those, I have no problems running them in Dos Box. So native mid to late 90s, everything else in Dos Box is acceptable.

3. Some folks will say "just run everything in DOS Box and be done with it" but I'm interested in fooling around with the AWE 32 and other classic soundcards, and also learning some graphics programming using actual hardware, not emulated. So there is that aspect.

Stack OEM desktops. That is what I do. Fast, cheap, always works and tons of documentations and drivers available for download online. 😀 Unless you are a tweaker of course.

Case in point: took me less than 2 hours to get Windows 3.11 & MPU-401 & SB Pro 2 & CIvNet up and running beautifully in 2 evenings (1.5 hours each) yesterday and today. I cannot imagine being able to do that sourcing a case, FPU, MOBO, VGA, FDD, HDD and so forth. Do not get my wrong: there is a lot of fun to be had with that. However: I prefer just playing games. 😀

sliderider wrote:

An OEM 486 system is still reasonably priced compared to what you would pay for the parts to assemble it yourself.

Where to find an OEM 486 box, though? Or do you mean purchasing a complete box off E-bay? I figure it would remove the hassle of getting it to run but might not necessarily be cheaper, I've seen systems going for $200, or $300-$400 and up. There is also the matter of having to make compromises in the components, I realize I'm not going to get exactly what I want unless I spend ridiculous amounts of money, I'm fine with getting any old VLB card as long as the performance is fine, that sort of thing. Or even going PCI, if I could find a 486 board with a decent PCI implementation.

PeterLI wrote:

Stack OEM desktops. That is what I do. Fast, cheap, always works and tons of documentations and drivers available for download online. 😀 Unless you are a tweaker of course.

Case in point: took me less than 2 hours to get Windows 3.11 & MPU-401 & SB Pro 2 & CIvNet up and running beautifully in 2 evenings (1.5 hours each) yesterday and today. I cannot imagine being able to do that sourcing a case, FPU, MOBO, VGA, FDD, HDD and so forth. Do not get my wrong: there is a lot of fun to be had with that. However: I prefer just playing games. 😀

Well, there is a certain amount of farting about I don't mind doing. But the level of farting about that I am starting to get into with the Tandy project is starting to get excessive, so I'm breaking the farting about into stages. 🤣

Since the P-Pro is already pretty close to where I want to be performance wise (ok it is at least twice as fast as a 486-133, maybe 3 times) it seems like that is a better leaping off point. It is also functioning and in a case (although a not particularly nice looking one).

I'm just worried if I start hunting for a VLB system or start speccing one out, I'm going to go off the deep end in terms of $$. I am not trying to replicate a specific system I had at all costs, I just don't think it would be possible and my pockets aren't deep enough.

snorg wrote:

sliderider wrote:

An OEM 486 system is still reasonably priced compared to what you would pay for the parts to assemble it yourself.

Where to find an OEM 486 box, though? Or do you mean purchasing a complete box off E-bay? I figure it would remove the hassle of getting it to run but might not necessarily be cheaper, I've seen systems going for $200, or $300-$400 and up. There is also the matter of having to make compromises in the components, I realize I'm not going to get exactly what I want unless I spend ridiculous amounts of money, I'm fine with getting any old VLB card as long as the performance is fine, that sort of thing. Or even going PCI, if I could find a 486 board with a decent PCI implementation.

I bought a complete 486 in AT tower locally in a thrift store just a couple weeks ago. It was only 10 euro's.
I was very lucky, but I have been lucky before.

One potential problem with buying a complete 486 though is that you can't be sure the system will work. It could have a battery leaking onto the motherboard, having killed the motherboard and then you need to find a replacement motherboard which of course is some proprietary motherboard.

Personally I really favor putting things together myself, but seeing the prices of 486 parts I can fully understand why an OEM system might be the better choice these days.

That's just it, I tend to not be very lucky when checking thrift stores. I could buy a complete system easily enough but I can't seem to find any VLB or PCI systems, and if you want the highest performing 486 out there, you've got to go that route. So yeah I guess I'm getting a little "tweaky" just not planning on getting crazy with it.

I recently found a beautiful VLB desktop in deep Moscow outskirts: Advanced Logic Research Flyer VL. It's a 486 DX2-50 system with one VLB slot on a riser (WD SVGA video is embedded). Good build quality and quiet fans (the only loud part is WD 210 Mb Caviar drive). DIN keyboard and PS/2 mouse. Made in USA - there's a chance you may find something alike.

Yeah, that's a nice system.

i think you need to map out your requirements clearly and what they mean for systems. you seem to be saying:

- keep tandy for old games

- may want ppro for os/2

- need a box to cover mid/late 90s games + it needs to have an isa slot for awe32

Maybe confirm whether the ppro can run the games you want it to, and if so then see if you can dual boot os/2 and win9x.

Personally I find the excitement of exotic os's fades pretty quickly even on new hardware - you may find just unplugging/replugging two hard drives in the ppro meets your needs [i don't know how amenable os/2 is to dual booting].

seems like the dual athlon is surplus [fwiw mine is dismantled and mothballed, wasn't all that great once i got it running]

The only reason I'm seriously considering OS/2 is it was really good at being able to run DOS based 3d software of the time (like 3d studio) and you would also keep something going like Fractal painter in a Windows session and swap back and forth between the 2. 3d is still a hobby of mine, but I have much faster systems so this probably isn't a strict requirement, and I know the frustration I had with getting my CD-ROM to work with OS/2 back in the day and recently the troubles I had getting it running in a vm, it may be more than I want to deal with right now. OS/2 was finicky back in the day and would probably be even more so, now.

Use different DOS/Windows machines as the same time on the same desk for multitasking. That is what I do. 😊

PeterLI wrote:

Use different DOS/Windows machines as the same time on the same desk for multitasking. That is what I do. 😊

Oh you're no fun 🤣. Way back I could only afford one machine. Granted, it was a barn burner at the time. Sadly, most of my computers followed the "farmers axe" life cycle: "why, I've had this axe here 40 years. Replaced the head 3 times and the handle twice".

So parts were sold off to fund other upgrades or eventually the entire machine itself. The things I do have still are only because it was too much bother to try and sell it on ebay for the return. It is too bad the older operating systems are not supported by virtual box as a host but I guess they aren't advanced enough for it? Or Oracle figured it wasn't worth the bother. Proably both. Not much you're going to be capable of virtualizing if you can only access a max of 256mb. It would be nice to run Win 95 in a vm on OS/2 though.