5u3 wrote:

Yes, that would work very well as smooth scrolling test. It scrolls smoothly on my CRTs as well as my SyncMaster TN LCD, but stutters on the IPS panels. Will do further tests with DVI later.

Excellent.

I had a look at a few IPS monitors and in the user manual there is usually a resolution / frequency table. Quite misleading if they can accept 70 and 75 Hz but convert it to 60 Hz.

Glad I did this thread and read your input as I was about to order a 1920 x 1200 monitor. Originally wanted the IPS (Well it's Samsung's version of that called AD-PLS) but decided to stick with TN. All my monitors are TN so I'm used to the way they look and I don't want to risk issues with scrolling. I will report back once it arrives 😀

ISO image updated to include smooth scrolling test

Bit the bullet and purchased this Samsung 16:10 1920 x 1200 monitor I had my eye on:

Splinter Cell at 1600 x 1200 bliss:

- LG W2452V 1920x1200 works fine, even has a 1:1 pixel mode as well as the usual fill/4:3 aspect ratio options , it's my main pc monitor

- HP w2207h 1680x1050 , works fine but I could not find a 4:3 scaling option, even in custom scaling menu , crazy!

Thanks for the info Keropi!

More images of my new Samsung 16:10 24" screen 😀

Where'd you find that Samsung, if you don't mind me asking? (I'm assuming it was a new purchase, since the box has a Windows 8 logo on it).

obobskivich wrote:

Where'd you find that Samsung, if you don't mind me asking? (I'm assuming it was a new purchase, since the box has a Windows 8 logo on it).

Ordered it from my favourite computer store: PLE in Perth 😀

They aren't listing it anymore, but the IPS panel version is still available. I was originally going to get the IPS version but the smooth scrolling issue made me hesitate. It's a lot of money for a gamble.

I'll have to try the benchmark CD out on my token IPS monitor to see if it exhibits any issues with scrolling - I've never noticed it to have problems under DirectX/OpenGL or within Windows, but that's about the extent of what I've used it for.

obobskivich wrote:

I'll have to try the benchmark CD out on my token IPS monitor to see if it exhibits any issues with scrolling - I've never noticed it to have problems under DirectX/OpenGL or within Windows, but that's about the extent of what I've used it for.

Yea DOS games run at 70 Hz. Just burn the ISO in the first post. It boots and auto starts. It tests a few resolutions and has a scrolling test at the end 😀

I'm in the process of acquiring a 17" HP L1740 LCD Monitor (5:4, 1280x1024). I've been doing lots of research on the internet and to my knowledge Mode 13 or 320x200 images are actually upscaled and displayed as 720x400 images at 70Hz refresh rate. Now, since you will be most likely be using a VGA input on a DOS-machine these 720x400 images also get upscaled to your native resolution and fills the entire screen (unless of course you have some sort o f 4:3 switch on monitor). As an experiment, I played around with some 320x200 screenshots of DOS games and I upscaled them using GIMP. I didn't use any graphical enhancements to "improve" the quality of the scale. So, just to outline the procedure I followed:

1. I first upscaled the 320x200 image to 720x400,
2. I then upscaled the 720x400 image to 1280x1024 (since that is the native resolution of my HP 1740 monitor).

Since 18.5" 1366x768 LCD monitors are readily available, with the Philips model being known to have a 4:3 switch, I also followed a similar procedure to produce 1024x768 upscales of the images. I did not recreate the black bars, so you'll have to use a bit of imagination. It's also been well established that 1366x768 is not even close to producing a correct aspect ratio of the image, so I didn't even bother with that resolution.

Here are the results for the 1280x1024 vs 1024x768 upscales:

Blood (1280x1024 vs 1024x768):

Doom 2 (1280x1024 vs 1024x768):

Commander Keen 4 (1280x1024):

Raptor: Call of the Shadows (1280x1024):

The Dig (1280x1024 vs 1024x768):

To my very subjective eye, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference in terms of the theoretical quality of the images. Phil's photos that he took of his monitors also provides great insights. I will also take some photos as soon as my monitor arrives.

Great work!

1280 x 1024 are very useful for retro gaming. There are brand new models sold currently. Second hand supply is also very strong.

The main downside is that these screens have 5:4 aspect ratio. So DOS games will be a little stretched vertically. but it's quite subtle. With windows games, it depends. Some games adjust for the 5:4 aspect ratio, meaning you will see a little bit extra vertically. Some just stretch.

There is also the 1280 x 960 resolution. That one is 4:3, and with Nvidia display scaling options, in games that support it, you will have crystal clear 1:1 pixel mapped and 4:3 aspect ratio correct retro image.

I've since, also purchased a LG 18.5" screen. It's as compatible as the Philips, but haven't gotten around to doing a proper review. Both I find too small for my liking. Unless you put them really up-close, I find the image too small. Which is a shame, as otherwise they are very good for retro gaming.

Well, you also have the problem of early Windows games that can only run at 640x480 (Starcraft 1, Grim Fandango) and 800x600 (Populous: The Beginning). I know you can have 1:1 scaling using DVI and your graphics card, but like Phil said, the images are tiny! I played DOS games on 14" and 13" CRT monitors back in the day, so the small display area doesn't really bother me too much. I remember (from LAN-ing on my 17" LG) that Starcraft 1 scaled pretty well on these monitors. LCDs may be good enough and the lower heat output and volume that they take up is nice, but CRT monitors are much more suited towards these older games. But, unfortunately, CRTs will inevitably die out. Maybe someone should look into something like using a Fragmeister or something for these older DOS games.

Yes it's true, good point. I like how modern graphics cards now offer Dynamic Super Resolution and Virtual Super resolution. Basically rendering games at 4K, then down-sampling to Full HD. The result is fantastic and gorgeous for older, new, Windows games such as Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and many other games that can be modified to support 4K, Medal of Honor Allied Assault and Return to Castle Wolfenstein included.

Low resolution games scaled to modern monitors look ok, but nothing beats native resolution. It's, as always, a compromise.

Another solution, which I also haven't covered yet 😒 (can you see how the list just keeps growing), is using a DVI capable Nvidia AGP card. The image is a bit soft for DOS games, but setup is simple. It converts to 60 Hz as well, great for digital capturing. Other cards keep the 70 Hz, which most monitors can't accept through DVI.

VGA output is clearer however.

That's actually not a bad idea! Isn't the 60Hz refresh rate a problem with some DOS games though?

Evert wrote:

That's actually not a bad idea! Isn't the 60Hz refresh rate a problem with some DOS games though?

I believe that some games will have issues because they use the refresh rate for timing. I don't remember fully, but Lotus was mentioned (a car racing games), and I'm sure there are others.

But the games I used when capturing, basically most DOS videos shown in my YouTube channel, work fine.

120 and 144Hz IPS panels are already available:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xb270hu.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/33.htm
http://www.blurbusters.com/overclock/120hz-14 … p-ips-monitors/

I'm curious to see how these perform in 320x200@70Hz.

I've got a Dell U2713HM, which is sadly a 60Hz IPS panel. The colours look amazing, but unfortunately scrolling is a bit choppy. I'm not sure if this is because of the refresh rate or because of the way IPS panels draw images. But if it's only down to refresh rate, then I'm pretty sure those 120/144MHz panels will look great, in terms of colour reproduction.

We will soon have affordable 4K displays with high refresh rates. So the situation could quickly become a lot better. The real worry is the disappearance of the VGA interface.

Well, you could probably use something like a hardware scalar to get past that problem. In many ways, LCD monitors are a lot better than CRT ones. Text looks and reads better on them, they take up less space, they have minimal heat output and with digital connections you have almost perfect quality images.

jwt27 wrote:

120 and 144Hz IPS panels are already available: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xb270hu.htm http://www.tftcentral.co.uk […]
Show full quote

120 and 144Hz IPS panels are already available:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xb270hu.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/33.htm
http://www.blurbusters.com/overclock/120hz-14 … p-ips-monitors/

I'm curious to see how these perform in 320x200@70Hz.

No analogue VGA input 😢