If yiu used the same game configuration on xp you would have the same sound. It may be affected by the midi output of your Windows 7, though.
Amiga used different music engine than Dos pirts of the games.

Thx for the answer.
So, VdmSound (v 2.1.0) or dosbox, same quality ? (like, if I was using them on XP, there would be no difference ) I suppose the "midi ouptut" cannot be modified for the better on win 7 ?

litote wrote:

Thx for the answer.
So, VdmSound (v 2.1.0) or dosbox, same quality ? (like, if I was using them on XP, there would be no difference ) I suppose the "midi ouptut" cannot be modified for the better on win 7 ?

You could try BASSMIDI that's what I use. Mudlord's site is down, so don't go there. Kode54 has his own downloads available near the bottom of the page though. Also, I couldn't get the volume control to do anything, I still have to set the overall app volume to adjust the MIDI volume. That's where DOSBox's mixer command comes in handy. Have to turn DOSBox down lower so the MIDI isn't too loud, but then I have to use mixer to turn everything else up a bit to compensate.

Thx, once bassmidi driver installed and configured according to the guidelines, will it be automatically used by Dosbox ? If it needs to be configured, is there any Dosbox front end that makes it easier ? Thank you.

ps: I followed the steps from Kode54 up until the last one which requires NoteWorthy Composer, which I don't have (not free). Is this last step needed ? tutorial isn't clear about this.
Anyway, the first steps didn't improve in game sound.

ps 2 : I also used putzlowitsch vistamidi mapper.

Right now, when starting a game from dbgl, dosbox status window says "midi : opened device : win 32
My sound settings look like this (

changed them a bit without better results

With that setting you will need to change the "Default MIDI Synth" in the "Advanced" tab of the "BASSMIDI Driver Configuration" utility. Alternately, once in DOSBox (with MPU-401 set to win32 or default,) you can issue the "MIXER /LISTMIDI" command to get a list of the MIDI devices, then put the number next to the BASSMIDI bank you wish to use in the "CONFIG" box.

Sound quality will also depend on the SoundFont you install into BASSMIDI (same utility.) I actually downloaded a 256MB GS/GM font from somewhere (don't remember where,) that I use. It sounds rather awesome, IMHO. In bank 2, I installed a standard 8MB GS/GM font (the one that comes with the AWE32 drivers CD. It sounds rather good too.

BASSMIDI is the only thing I installed (as it can adjust the Windows mapper itself.) I'm going to have to check out putzlowitsch vistamidi mapper to see what it's like, though. I've been searching off and on for something that would restore the functionality I liked. A MIDI mapper with a control panel - sound interface that allows me to select the MIDI device used as default like WinXP and before. A volume control mixer that allows me to adjust volumes by "device" and not by "application".

FeedingDragon wrote:

With that setting you will need to change the "Default MIDI Synth" in the "Advanced" tab of the "BASSMIDI Driver Configuration" utility.

I did that already. (it gave me two midi ports (A or B) as choices, oddly.
With putzlowitsch vistamidi mapper, I choosed the same midi driver with the same port (maybe redundant)

FeedingDragon wrote:

Alternately, once in DOSBox (with MPU-401 set to win32 or default,) you can issue the "MIXER /LISTMIDI" command to get a list of the MIDI devices, then put the number next to the BASSMIDI bank you wish to use in the "CONFIG" box.

when I do that, it lists the 2 midi ports plus MS GS wavetable synth. "put the number next to the BASSMIDI bank in the "CONFIG" box " Not sure what you mean. the 2 ports are 0,1 then the ms GS is 2. The config box is the one in the audio settings of the frontend? Which bank ?

Concerning "with MPU-401 set to win32 or default", I am not sure what you mean, but looking at the picture in my previous post, you can see that the front end diplays two settings: "MPU-401" set to intelligent and "midi device" set to "default" (which is always set to win32 when starting dosbox, whatever I choose.

FeedingDragon wrote:

Sound quality will also depend on the SoundFont you install into BASSMIDI (same utility.) I actually downloaded a 256MB GS/GM font from somewhere (don't remember where,) that I use. It sounds rather awesome, IMHO. In bank 2, I installed a standard 8MB GS/GM font (the one that comes with the AWE32 drivers CD. It sounds rather good too.

I found a soundfont (Soundfont - Titanic 200 GM-GS v1.2) in sf2 format, and used it in the MIDIBASS config tool. No improvement.
Basicaly, configuring the midi thing didn't improve the sound, but maybe I am still missing something.

Thx

You have the right numbers for the MIDI devices. What you would do is put the number you want into the box labeled "Config" which is directly below the "midi device" entry (on your screenshot.) It looks like there is a text entry box next to "Config" but I could be wrong (my eyes aren't the best and the screenshot looks a little over-bright to me.) I don't use front ends for DOSBox, so I cannot say for sure that that is what that entry is for, but it seems logical. In the .conf file that DOSBox uses the entry is "midiconfig=" and I would change it to "midiconfig=1" to use Port B (for example.)

As for which port to use, that depends on you. I usually put the best GM/GS font I have in Port A and use that as the default, then I put a specialized or some such one in Port B and that becomes my backup. Since Port A is listed as default, unless vistamidi is interfering somehow, Port A should play without doing anything. If it's still playing what MS laughingly calls a Wavetable, then something is off. One good way to test the playability is get a specialized SoundFont to test with. I used to have one that played rude sounds instead of instruments, but I can't find it, and I don't remember where I got it.

One thing you might think of doing... BASSMIDI has a default device selector that does the exact same thing as vistamidi does. You might want to go ahead and remove vistamidi, just in case it is interfering with BASSMIDI. I don't see how - they both just change a couple of registry entries (from what I understand.) I could be wrong though.

FeedingDragon wrote:

You have the right numbers for the MIDI devices. What you would do is put the number you want into the box labeled "Config" which is directly below the "midi device" entry (on your screenshot.) It looks like there is a text entry box next to "Config" but I could be wrong (my eyes aren't the best and the screenshot looks a little over-bright to me.) I don't use front ends for DOSBox, so I cannot say for sure that that is what that entry is for, but it seems logical. In the .conf file that DOSBox uses the entry is "midiconfig=" and I would change it to "midiconfig=1" to use Port B (for example.).

Thanks for taking your time to answer.

Well, as for the screeshot, config is what you said, and below is a "mixer command" box, with a "mixer volume settings" button on the right.
Above is the midi device.

As for the soundfonts, I tried the one that went with the bassmidi download (WeedsGM3), then the other one I listed, no difference. I tried googling for fonts similar to the one you listed, for testing, but no luck.

If you have any link somewhere to a font that could be used for test...
But maybe something is off, as you said.

The dosbox status window says MIDI:win32 selected BASSMIDI driver (port A).
So that part is right.

I just cannot find the one I was talking about earlier... That one would have been obvious 😀 belches, flatulence, sneezes, snorts, sort of obvious. Man, I wish I could find it 🙁 On the other hand this one (below) should make an obvious difference for testing purposes. It's animal sounds. It's also very quiet, so you might have to volume up a bit if you want to hear what's actually going on 😀

If the fonts are working normally, then you might need to find a better font file, or check your audio HW. Beyond that I'm starting to run out of things to check on 🙁

Thanks for the upload.
Ok, well, there are no animal sounds to be heard, I even removed any font from Bassmidi, and I still heard the music in game...
So, clearly, dosbox is not reading the font ?
Despite the dosbox status window saying MIDI:win32 selected BASSMIDI driver (port A)

I am at a loss. I followed the instructions to install bassmidi...don't see what I am missing.

First, which version of Eye of the Beholder are you running? I had to dig a bit, but on my CD it only offers Adlib music for the first two games (and PC Speakers but no need to go there.) The third game added MT-32, LAPC, and CM32L support (need a different MIDI device for those - check out munt if you are interested, there are forums for it here on Vogons.) I have the floppy version as well, but those are among the disks I have not imaged yet. Also, Cruise for a Corpse (have imaged those floppies - don't have a CD version,) is limited to Adlib or MT-32 as well. I couldn't get any music in that one. I should say "yet" I'm still working on it. If you have them set to adlib, changing MIDI devices will have no impact. If you change them to MT-32 (eob3 & cruise,) you should get a better sounds, but they may not be the correct sounds. Do you have any other games that use GM or GS for music?

DOSBox doesn't read the font, it just sends the output to the BASSMIDI "device". For some reason, it's getting re-routed to the Microsoft "device". In both cases, the device is virtual. My "first" thought would be that BASSMIDI and VistaMIDI are conflicting somehow. Try removing both and then just installing BASSMIDI again (as a precaution, change the default back to MS WaveTable first - just to be safe.) From reading the web site for VistaMIDI, all it does is allow you to set the default MIDI device away from the MS WaveTable (which MS locked starting with Vista.) BASSMIDI does the same thing as part of its package. So I can see how they might conflict.

As a test, you might try putting the animals.sf2 on both BASSMIDI ports (and make sure no other fonts are also loading,) then set the DOSBox midiconfig to 1 (Port B) and see if you get animal sounds. If you don't try setting midiconfig to 2 to be thorough. The mapping may have gotten mixed up, DOSBox is being told one order, but in actuality it is something else. If this is the case, then I would say that VistaMIDI is even more likely to be conflicting with BASSMIDI.

Do you have any other windows drivers/applications that are changing Microsoft's rather narrow view of MIDI access?

I am running both eob 1 and 2. I think I completely ignored those sound specifications, depending on the game. I thought either could be used, or that there was at least some compatibility (midi could work for several games, etc.)
I must confess my noobyness in all of this.
I just tried ScummVM, which is also free, to run those games, including Cruise, the sound came out a bit different on Cruise (identical for EOB 1 ans 2), albeit not good (slowed down). There are several sound options in the scumm tool, you can even choose a soundfont bank. But alas, trying either MT, adlib, midi, MS GS synth... produced the same sound.

Anyway, maybe I am asking too much from sound emulation and it just won't be as good as the original (or the emulated amiga version, in some cases).

Wish those programs could give more feed back as to what is actually done with the sound when launching a game.

"Do you have any other games that use GM or GS for music?".
Don't know what GM/GS is, actually.

I am also running monkey island 1 and 2.

"Do you have any other windows drivers/applications that are changing Microsoft's rather narrow view of MIDI access?"

Like vistamidi you mean ? nope.

Amiga uses a totally different sound system. IIRC Amiga used samples instead of synth. Adlib, used FM Synth (forgot what FM stand for off hand,) but I always thought of it as a much improved SID style music (showing my C64 roots here, I know.) Basically it's given a set of values for pitch, frequency, attack, decay, etc... and the Adlib card converts that into sound.

GM/GS is pretty much a standard for MIDI (GM = General MIDI.) GS is supposedly GM+, I've not done a lot of research into the difference. But in a game's settings you might find an entry for "General MIDI", "GM/GS", or some variation of that. These work differently than Adlib, in that different values are supplied, and like the Amiga, a sample is used instead of wave form calculations. For GM/GS, the note and instrument are what is provided (Trumpet C# for example - though it would include octave as well,) and the device (physical or virtual,) plays the corresponding sample with the frequency/pitch adjusted to match the note/octave.

MT-32 is basically pre-GM. GM has become the standard, but from what I understand MT-32 is more versatile. But it pretty much works very similar to GM/GS.

I don't believe that Adlib values can be easily converted for GM on the fly. It seems that it would take a tremendous amount of calculating to do so anyways. The only way I can think of doing it would be to take the values given, build a virtual waveform with it, adjust the pitch/frequency to the standard (reverse calculating note/octave,) then compare it to all the "instruments" in a standard GM set to find the closest match. The program could then send the calculated instrument with the reverse calculated note/octave to the GM device. There may be easier ways of doing it, but that's all that I can think of.

All of the games you've mentioned (not counting Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2,) are Adlib or MT-32 (Monkey Island 2 also lists SoundBlaster - but that is probably it's Adlib mode.) The games you mentioned will not, it seems, play through GM when set to MT-32 modes. I would suggest checking out Munt (here on the Vogons board,) a MT-32 emulator (though you'll have to track down the ROMs for it.) It will add another MIDI device but all the games will sound MUCH better 😀

So, for the games you've listed so far, I would say: Cruise for a Corpse, Monkey Island 1, & Monkey Island 2 will all sound best with MT-32, but without that you're stuck with Adlib music (one of the games offered Game Blaster, which is probably CMS - or pre Adlib compatibility sound blaster.) The rest of the games you listed, I'm afraid your stuck with Adlib as the best available. For all the games, I would run their setup routines and set them the way you need/want. On a side note, my disk versions of Monkey Island 1 & 2 didn't have setup programs, I had to manually tell it to use Roland (or Adlib, or whatever,) at run time. I don't know about your versions.

To test the BASSMIDI, you'll need to find a game that can be set to GM, will play MT-32 through a GM emulation, or find a .mid file to play through media player.

p.s. As a note, the only legal way to get the ROMs for Munt is to purchase an MT-32 or CM-32L and dump the ROMs. Though, I guess you could contact Roland and ask about getting the ROMs.

Correction... You can play Monkey Island 1 & 2 in Roland mode through BASSMIDI.... Like an idiot I had forgotten that I had put a non-functional (empty) font in port b... I had intended to take it out, but had forgotten. It doesn't sound right, but you can tell the difference between BASSMIDI and MS WaveTable. Also, if you have a good GM/GS font the file below (converted from my AWE32 SBK map file,) will improve the sound a bit (still won't be completely MT-32 quality, but pretty good.) In BASSMIDI, load the GM/GS font first, then this one (GS/GM on top, SYNTHMT.SF2 on bottom.) I'm still trying to get any sound from Cruise for a Corpse (I'll get back to you on that one.)

Ok, figured out Cruise for a Corpse. Evidently my version has no music, it uses Adlib, PC Speaker, or MT-32 for sound effects only. Such as opening and closing the door 😒

FeedingDragon wrote:

Correction... You can play Monkey Island 1 & 2 in Roland mode through BASSMIDI.... 😒

Thanks, could you provide some steps for that ? I placed your file in Bassmidi, but is there anything else to do ? (in the config file for dosbox, for example).

You could try ScummVM or dbgl and tell me what you think of all their options. I have been mainly playing with that until now.

As for munt, didn't try it yet, though you can create a path that point to the TM/roland rom in Scumm and use its MT 32 emulator. Didn't improve the sound for Cruise, though (if its really working).

Munt creates a other midi port you say, to select with dosbox ? like port 3 on top of the 0,1,2 ?

Right now, seems the games can only use soundblaster / opl mode which is for adlib, I presume. At least switching those off "on the fly" in dosbox svn build (there is a menu on top) mutes the sound.

Last but not least, what about that idea to run those games through dosbox or VDM sound on XP ? Any idea if it would improve the sound ? I remember playing the same games on xp, with a better sound, but maybe my memory is deceiving me.

thx

litote wrote:

Thanks, could you provide some steps for that ? I placed your file in Bassmidi, but is there anything else to do ? (in the config file for dosbox, for example).

To be completely safe, step by step from the beginning (based on information from past posts):
1 - Open up the BASSMIDI Configuration Utility and make sure Port B is selected.
2 - Lets go ahead and remove everything that's currently there, and hit apply
3 - Load the "Soundfont - Titanic 200 GM-GS v1.2" file you have, and hit apply
4 - Load the SYNTHMT.SF2 file I uploaded (it isn't actually a full font, it's mainly a remap), and hit apply
....At this point the list box should show you the Titanic font on top & MT32 on bottom like below.

....If the order is wrong, click on MT32 and click the "Down" Button to correct, then click Apply and close BASSMIDI.
5 - Open up DBGL and load the Monkey Island 1 or 2 profile.
6 - Under the Audio tab make sure that MPU-401 is "intelligent", MIDI Device is "default" or "win32", and Config is set to 1
7 - Under the Mounting tab, in the Main Executable Parameters box input "v mo r" (assuming VGA, and Mouse, the r is for Roland MT-32)
....(leave out the " marks) If you are using a Joystick, change mo to j and if you are using keyboard change it to k
....The command line parameters are the same for both 1 & 2 for Monkey Island.

....This is based off guess work from images on the web site.
8 - Save the profile and run the game to test.

NOTE: if the main executable (in the box just above the one I'm pointing to,) is a .bat (batch) file, you might need to edit that instead of putting the parameters into the parameters box.

For Cruise for a Corpse, you run the install.exe in the game directory to change its settings.

litote wrote:

You could try ScummVM or dbgl and tell me what you think of all their options. I have been mainly playing with that until now.

My problem with ScummVM (or Exult, Frotz and others,) is they are engine "replacements". I prefer emulation over replacement, so I've never used those.

litote wrote:

As for munt, didn't try it yet, though you can create a path that point to the TM/roland rom in Scumm and use its MT 32 emulator. Didn't improve the sound for Cruise, though (if its really working).

Munt creates a other midi port you say, to select with dosbox ? like port 3 on top of the 0,1,2 ?

There are actually 2 ROM files you will need for Munt, the Control ROM and the PCM ROM. If you have those already then yes, install Munt and under options, point it to wherever those ROMs are located, then click them in the select box to activate them (if it doesn't do it automatically.)

Once its installed, you will have a 4th MIDI Device listed with the "mixer /listmidi" command. Mine comes up as 3, so that is what I put in the Config box (well in the midiconfig= line in my case.) That will be much more accurate in sound. Cruise for a corpse will actually sound good (doors opening & closing will sound correct for example.)

litote wrote:

Right now, seems the games can only use soundblaster / opl mode which is for adlib, I presume. At least switching those off "on the fly" in dosbox svn build (there is a menu on top) mutes the sound.

Last but not least, what about that idea to run those games through dosbox or VDM sound on XP ? Any idea if it would improve the sound ? I remember playing the same games on xp, with a better sound, but maybe my memory is deceiving me.

thx

Eye of the Beholder 1 & 2, yes you are stuck with Adlib or no sound. If you change the settings, you can get better sound for Monkey Island 1 & 2 as well as Cruise for a Corpse. The "best" sound for those 3 will come from Munt though.

As for VMDSound, it won't really improve anything unless you also alter it's configuration to use BASSMIDI or Munt as well, and you would still need to change the game settings. It's basically an emulator as well, or a redirector/emulator.

Many thanks for your help.
I managed to create an other "default midi synth" : MT 32 synth emulator, which, combined with setting up Cruise to MT 32, improved, but sadly only slightly, the sound for Cruise (the music at least, I didn't hear any other sound effects).
I guess you don't need a soundfont for MT 32 ?
As fo EOB1 EOB2.
If I understand correctly, soundfonts/midi ports won't do anything for them, the only thing working will be the sound blaster emulated through dosbox or whatever ?
I managed to find a difference for monkey island 2 between port a and b (b were the animal sound), while using scummvm. But for the animal sounds, there was just silence. Port a (with your soundfont and mine) was actually quite ok, regarding sound quality.
Using dblg, there is no difference between port b and a...sound is bad. Worse than scummvm with bassmidi port a. So I guess there is a problem here. The soundfont dont seem to be read.
I ll make some other test and come back if I find anyting noteworthy.

No, MT-32 doesn't use fonts. It has it's own instrument set and it also allowed you to upload samples to it (which is one of the reasons it was so popular with games.) The font + synthmt map combination just sets the soundfont to the default samples a MT-32 has (with maybe a few extras.) That's why it doesn't sound right in many cases. If you have Munt up and running, for games that support it, I'd use the MT-32 Synth Emulator as that will get you almost perfectly accurate sound that the game originally had. This is usually (not always,) the best sound you can get for a game that supports it (IMHO.)

I don't use front ends for DOSBox, I'm looking at the screenshots for DBGL right now, seeing if there is anything that could be interfering with you games not using the correct devices. Not having much luck. Could you take screenshots of all the profile pages pack them up and attach them? I could look over them and try to work out what's going on. Monkey Island 1 & 2 should sound worlds different with Munt... I made a mp3 file of the Monkey Island 1 theme played in DOSBox through Munt. Took a little bit of doing too 🙁 I hate Windows 7 - what happened to "record what you hear"??? I couldn't find it anywhere. This is the floppy version. I "may" have one of the CD versions in a box somewhere - but if I do its in storage and not available to me.

Which version of Cruise for a Corpse do you have? Mine doesn't have music at all (that I can find,) only sound effects.

Hello,

Thanks for the attached file.

I made some progress 😉 (also by re reading some of your posts).
It seems that, in the advanced tab of bassmidi utility, setting the default MIDI to anything but MS wavetable and THEN, setting the value to 0 in dosbox (because for example port A had become the defaut value=0), was the problem.
To hear the animal fonts, I had to set the default midi to MS wavesynth, and then use the value 1,2 or whatever in dosbox.
Maybe you did say something like this, and I misunderstood it.
Now as for the results. Well, they are not stellar, though in Monkey island 1, I get the best sound, similar to yours. Monkey 2 sounds less good.
Now, two questions : I still didn't quit understand why you told me to put two font file in bassmidi, then putting v mo r. Is it like a "set up" to force the game to use the MT font, though it will use the midi port ?
second question: EOB 1 and 2 won't use the font, right ? cause my tests failed there, animals or no animals (I think you told me this, just need a confirmation that there is no way to improve the sound there).

Also, for Cruise. I put a screenshot of the dglb to show you the config with which I had the best result, though I don't know why (its with a dosbox svn, so more options). I used the bassmidi port, but selected MT 32 as midi device...
Selecting MT 32 port didnt sound really good...
But still, result isn't really why I would call enjoyable. 🙁

The second pic show the "experimental options for MT 32 in dosbox svn.

ps : any best of the best soundfont recommendation, btw ?
ps: I am now trying to fiddle with the soundblaster options (cruise picture) to avoid some unpleasant sounds in Eye of the beholder, with some mild success)
ps

FeedingDragon wrote:

Which version of Cruise for a Corpse do you have? Mine doesn't have music at all (that I can find,) only sound effects.

What do you mean by version ?