Same with V770 TNT2 32M. Very sharp at 1600x1200. Not that it would be useful - I find most 3D games to support this resolution painfully slow at 1600x1200x16 on a TNT2. And besides, HUD is painfully small in most of them.

RacoonRider wrote:

Same with V770 TNT2 32M. Very sharp at 1600x1200. Not that it would be useful - I find most 3D games to support this resolution painfully slow at 1600x1200x16 on a TNT2. And besides, HUD is painfully small in most of them.

Yeah you aren't going to game at 1600x1200. It's just a test of whether the cards can put out a sharp VGA signal.

Though these tests are realistic, because who wants to buy an exorbitant svga cable, I've always wondered how the picture on every day cards would look with a custom cable from bluejean cable--one with mini-coax used for the appropriate lines. Because lets face it, normal svga cables don't use proper impedance. Even some that have the BNC termination for the RGB lines don't use coax.

I noticed that the Diamond TNT had better signal quality than the Creative TNT at 60 Hz refresh, however the quality improved for 70 Hz +. I was using an LCD screen.

Logistics wrote:

Though these tests are realistic, because who wants to buy an exorbitant svga cable, I've always wondered how the picture on every day cards would look with a custom cable from bluejean cable--one with mini-coax used for the appropriate lines. Because lets face it, normal svga cables don't use proper impedance. Even some that have the BNC termination for the RGB lines don't use coax.

The few VGA cables I've cut in half all used coax for the RGB wires. Haven't seen any coax used for the H/V wires, but then that's just high-impedance TTL anyway.

I'm using a pretty beefy VGA cable. It has no problem making a razor sharp 1920x1200 60Hz.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_ … &seq=1&format=2

I've mostly seen cable problems caused by extension cables. Going beyond 10ft or so is trouble. Some/most Voodoo1 card passthrus are also a great way to destroy a VGA signal.

feipoa wrote:

I noticed that the Diamond TNT had better signal quality than the Creative TNT at 60 Hz refresh, however the quality improved for 70 Hz +. I was using an LCD screen.

That's strange. Probably something about the signal not working well with the LCD.

One thing I've found with LCDs is you want an image with lots of sharp patterns for the auto adjust to work with. Those tileable Windows backgrounds work well.

I have noticed the same effect with ATI Rage 128 cards. The ATI Rage 128 VR has noisy signal quality at 640x480 with 60 Hz compared to the ATI Rage 128 Pro. When I increased the refresh rate on the ATI Rage 128 VR to 75 Hz, the signal was clean. The ATI Rage 128 Pro was clean at all refresh frequencies.

jwt27 wrote:

Logistics wrote:

Though these tests are realistic, because who wants to buy an exorbitant svga cable, I've always wondered how the picture on every day cards would look with a custom cable from bluejean cable--one with mini-coax used for the appropriate lines. Because lets face it, normal svga cables don't use proper impedance. Even some that have the BNC termination for the RGB lines don't use coax.

The few VGA cables I've cut in half all used coax for the RGB wires. Haven't seen any coax used for the H/V wires, but then that's just high-impedance TTL anyway.

You are correct, sir. I noticed that the only difference was the use of coax on the Horizontal Sync/Vertical Sync lines. A little googling lead to other forum discussions where users were having trouble with displays, which was corrected to a great degree by using a 75-Ohm resistor on the H and V lines so it stands to reason that actual coax could benefit a system. It also leads me to wonder if it has any effect on the tearing in games due to improper syncing.

feipoa wrote:

I have noticed the same effect with ATI Rage 128 cards. The ATI Rage 128 VR has noisy signal quality at 640x480 with 60 Hz compared to the ATI Rage 128 Pro. When I increased the refresh rate on the ATI Rage 128 VR to 75 Hz, the signal was clean. The ATI Rage 128 Pro was clean at all refresh frequencies.

I've seen scrolling diagonal line interference patterns from some cards. Refresh rate and resolution affect this. The source seems to be the card because yes some cards are free of it in the same system. Or some cards just filter EMI/RFI better.

I also have this problem with an old N64 that's connected by Svideo to a TV in another room. I have a feeling the cause is AC noise.

swaaye wrote:

I've seen scrolling diagonal line interference patterns from some cards.

Yup, that is the effect I was referencing.

feipoa wrote:

swaaye wrote:

I've seen scrolling diagonal line interference patterns from some cards.

Yup, that is the effect I was referencing.

This is probably related as well
Return of the Wavy Lines - this time, it's Matrox

I found an SVGA cable with coax at the sync-lines--I'm going to do some comparison testing with a good 3-coax cable. I especially wanted to try this on my SEGA Dreamcast with a Sega VGA-box. Soon...

swaaye wrote:

feipoa wrote:

swaaye wrote:

I've seen scrolling diagonal line interference patterns from some cards.

Yup, that is the effect I was referencing.

This is probably related as well
Return of the Wavy Lines - this time, it's Matrox

I've actually seen two variants of the rolling horizontal line problem. One is detailed in my earlier posts; so far, I've seen it affect two GeForce2 Ultra's (at seemingly all refresh rates and resolutions). I've also seen it on two G400 Max's, but only at certain refresh rates. This is more like a faint overlaid light/dark pattern.

The second type I've only seen on an integrated STB Velocity 128 ZX, and this is more of a quivering effect (i.e., sharp vertical outlines will appear somewhat wavy). The picture is distorted, but otherwise clear. It sounds like this is the effect you mentioned in your first post. This problem comes and goes for me as well. Might be related to ambient temperature, but I haven't been able to confirm this.

maximus wrote:

The second type I've only seen on an integrated STB Velocity 128 ZX, and this is more of a quivering effect (i.e., sharp vertical outlines will appear somewhat wavy). The picture is distorted, but otherwise clear.

This problem went away when I swapped out the hard drive. It must have been emitting electromagnetic interference.

Diamond V550 and V770 both have Excellent and sharp image quality. Better is allmost only found on Matrox G400's.

I've noticed this too. My Diamond Viper V770U has one of the brightest and sharpest VGA outputs I've ever seen.

Though not a 3D card as such....

I have a Number Nine S3 325. Virge I think, just like the one in this post
VGA PCI S3 Number 9 Virge 325 card, basic info.

The image quality is sharp, chrisp and really bright.

Just tested the TNT2 M64 32mb, very nice output indeed with VBE 3.0 and 8x14 Fonts already included in the video BIOS, great compatibility in DOS overall.

There is just one thing I don't like about it, the 720x400 and 320x200 modes are not the same in the video Bios, but on the Cirrus Logic 5446 they are.
My monitor detects both these resolution as the same and I can't adjust them independently.
Why is that a problem? one of the resolutions is shifted to the right compared to the other, this means I have to fix the monitor each time I enter a game from Norton Commander.
Some DOS games use 320x200 yet some use 720x400, and there is no way to force one DOS resolution.
I've seen this kind of behavior from the S3 Virge DX too but with elevated black level.
Anyway, I can live with slightly smaller and few pixels off-center image inside the CRT to accommodate both resolutions.

Also there is no UniVBE support with the M64 version of the TNT2, but I don't mind because I don't have games that require UNIVBE to work.