IF a game doesn't follow that practice and is installed in a \Program Files\, it still ends up in C:\Users\etc\appdata\local\Windows\VirtualStore.

Yeah I hate the C: creep too, especially when they go into MY DOCUMENTS 😠

It's long been a standard to only store write once stuff in program files and other stuff in either shared or user space. MS recommendations are not clear on where but ever since they tightened the hold on c:/program files it really makes sense.
After switching from Dos/windows 3.x I was very anal about where stuff went but later gave in and decided that being anal about tidyness of the hard drive is a battle that only takes precious time better spent playing.
Then I left Windows crazyness behind 😉

I don't know, I think unix craziness is just as annoying. ~/.game/ on the system drive, REALLY!? Might as well be using Windows and doing it all on C:.

This was an issue when I intentionally made small Linux partitions hoping to use my large NTFS partitions for games. Lots of file access issues, and I ended up copying games I wanted to play over into /usr/ or ~/gamename/

Yes, never said it's different 😉
But symlinks work better on unix systems...

leileilol wrote:

IF a game doesn't follow that practice and is installed in a \Program Files\, it still ends up in C:\Users\etc\appdata\local\Windows\VirtualStore.

And if it is one of the disallowed extensions it will fail. That is why LSL5 won't work on Vista+ if installed inside %ProgramFiles% if UAC is on. It writes to one of the DRV files, which is not allowed in the VirtualStore.

leileilol wrote:

Yeah I hate the C: creep too, especially when they go into MY DOCUMENTS 😠

I keep all of my own data and work on a different drive than the system drive. It irritates me that some programs always want save and open dialogs always open in the Libraries and not remembering where I had been saving. Granted forcing the location may be best for less experienced users with a single drive.

Just change your profile location if it bothers you that much or use a software virtualization solution.

collector wrote:

leileilol wrote:

Yeah I hate the C: creep too, especially when they go into MY DOCUMENTS 😠

I keep all of my own data and work on a different drive than the system drive. It irritates me that some programs always want save and open dialogs always open in the Libraries and not remembering where I had been saving. Granted forcing the location may be best for less experienced users with a single drive.

Exactly why it's so irritating. I've tried using the Windows option to re-locate the 'Users' folder to another drive but it was a 50/50 chance that a game would not pickup on the change. Besides I *want* to keep Users with C: since I image C: on a regular basis as a system backup - it's data creep and game files strewn all over the system that's the issue.

A game that will install itself to X:\blah\blah\blah shouldn't have to store info anywhere else right? Except for registry initialization and perhaps some DRM junk in C: correct?

tincup wrote:

Is there a sound technical reason why some game park save games, options/configuration data and other vital game related files i […]
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Is there a sound technical reason why some game park save games, options/configuration data and other vital game related files in C:\Users, and not in the root game folder?

One company claimed it was to satisfy [unspecified] Windows UAC/Admin privilege issues, but I'm unconvinced since the majority of games don't follow this practice.

I ask because I like to keep C: drive lean and mean, and park all data and games on D: drive and others, and it's annoying to discover that game data creep occurs on C:., and it can be frustrating to track down these sometimes elusive folders if access is needed [hand-edit/backup/patch etc].

Any illumination here?

User specific saves and persistent options and saves across a reinstall.

A reinstall of what? The game? Saving user specific saves and persistent options would be just the same in a D:\[game] structure. The installer/uninstaller would query you either way.

My question is really; is it true developers are sometimes forced by Windows UAC/Admin Privilege restrictions to use C:\Users for this kind of data, or a is this developer preference.

Learn and use this:

Link Shell Extension

DosFreak wrote:

Just change your profile location if it bothers you that much or use a software virtualization solution.

I didn't say it bothered me that much. I only said it was sometimes irritating. If it bothered me that much I would have dome something about it a long time ago.

i think the main reason is, that every User on the Machine has his own savegames and settings when stored in c:/...../username/.....

and no one can force devs to do anything especially Microsoft as evidence just read The Old New Thing blog some time.

The steam emulators and cracks usually change the save game directory.

Sammy wrote:

i think the main reason is, that every User on the Machine has his own savegames and settings when stored in c:/...../username/.....

That's not a bad reason, but I recall games that allowed you to load different "Players" from the main game menu and all this was saved in the game root folder. My objection is stuff is getting really spread out. Like Mod folders set up in Users when they should really be in a game subfolder.

Actually the whole notion of different users on an enthusiast/hobby box makes no sense to me in the first place, so maybe all this is just me not being a good fit for the concept behind the OS/different users design.

I just took a look at my Users folder and nearly ever subfolder seems to harbor game folders of some kind - too unruly for me! 😵

tincup wrote:

A reinstall of what? The game? Saving user specific saves and persistent options would be just the same in a D:\[game] structure. The installer/uninstaller would query you either way.

My question is really; is it true developers are sometimes forced by Windows UAC/Admin Privilege restrictions to use C:\Users for this kind of data, or a is this developer preference.

Yes the game.
I think the target of the uninstaller is (depending on the developers idea) to completely remove the game folder so that if the save games were stored there,
then they would be lost.

Speaking as a programmer, when I go to access system folders in order to store save game data or such, I'm limited to where I'll be directed to depending on the operating system and what system folder variables are available.

Typically, the folders I have access to on a modern Windows OS (XP or later) will be:

C:\Users\[user]\[appdata]
C:\Users\[user]\[documents]
C:\[program data]
C:\[temporary]

This is the correct way to handle documents created by an application, and a save game is just another type of document created by an application.

You don't keep your xls and doc files in the same directory where Office is installed, and there's no reason for it to be any different with games.

It doesn't even really have anything to do with UAC. No version of Windows NT/2K/XP, or any sane operating system, gives non-privileged users access to write to directories where programs are installed. Each user does have a profile directory though, and any files created by applications they use should be stored there.

Correct! The only reason it gets really messy is because there was no strict guideline by MS where in the user folder to put things, so you have them all over the place because every game figures out their own default.
And defaults are good because normal users shouldn't have to worry where things go.

SquallStrife wrote:

You don't keep your xls and doc files in the same directory where Office is installed, and there's no reason for it to be any different with games.

This reasoning makes no sense to me. Office produces documents for user assigned purposes - like Jobs. You put documents made by Office in a Job folder. A game is like a Job and has it's own folder - the game folder. All files relevant to the game, whether made during installation, during use of the game, or later customized by the Player, go in the game folder. Why should save games produced by a game during play go in a different folder or drive than other files produced by the game during installation?

Storing parts of games - which are [or should be] essentially whole and self-contained units - across different zones of a computer, is the wrong direction in my humble opinion..