tincup wrote:

If you had the choice, on your dedicated hobby/gaming machine, to have a game install all files to a single folder, and save all user-modified files to that folder, and allow all mod files and enhancements to that folder - wouldn't you just say yes? I think you would.

God no.

d:\games\xxxxxx

...for the actual installed software, and...

e:\docs\gameX
e:\docs\gameX\saves
e:\docs\gameX\mods
etc.

...for anything I add. Then if the game gets screwy, it's perfectly safe to just blow away the entire install folder and start again, rather than picking through and separating out what's my data, and what's not. If a mod gets screwy, I can just blow away my mods folder, and the core game files are untouched.

tincup wrote:

Unless the trend to C:\Users for all user modified files is due to higher order Windows security\UAC\Admin Privileges issues - I don't see how this is sound at all.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Did I not just explain that this is the EXACT reason?

%programfiles% is only modifiable with elevated privileges, whereas %userprofile% is modifiable by the user at all times.

Once again, other OS'es have done it this way for decades (/bin /usr/bin /usr/local/bin etc for programs, /home/username/ for user created files). This is Windows catching up, not being different.

Edit: Double-posted for some reason. Fixed nao.

Like I said - arguing at cross purposes.

D:\Games\[game]
game files
save games
configs
mods
documentation
[game].exe
uninstall[game].exe
version.txt

In one folder you have all the files needed to run the game [granted, single user/admin]. No need to backup or refer to any other folder. Easy.

I'm also concerned about C: data creep as user-created/modified files get shunted to C:\User simply because they are deemed "user-created" or "user-modified". We have to watch out for the kind of Data Chaos you mention earlier in regards to DOS and early W9x. We don't want C:\Users to become a defacto data storage area for modded files. Windows may nudge you into using it's My Documents, My Pictures, My Music storage concept, but doesn't lock you into it. The rise of game mod folders hardwired to C:\Users limits flexibility and encourages data creep.

To repeat:

%programfiles% is only modifiable with elevated privileges, whereas %userprofile% is modifiable by the user at all times.

Once again, other OS'es have done it this way for decades (/bin /usr/bin /usr/local/bin etc for programs, /home/username/ for user created files). This is Windows catching up, not being different.

It's the very thing you said earlier constitutes a sound technical reason. It's exactly because of privilege separation.

Thankfully not all Devs find that structure either necessary or beneficial. Save games, user.ini , cofig.ini etc., in the game folder. Simple.

Remember, I am talking about a single user/admin hobby/game system. No Corporate work environment here - we're wearing our VOGONS caps. Building and testing race cars. We've stripped the Privilege system in our systems down as much as Windows UAC/Admin will allow us. That's our starting point.

tincup wrote:

Thankfully not all Devs find that structure either necessary or beneficial. Save games, user.ini , cofig.ini etc., in the game folder. Simple.

What game made in the last 5 years doesn't use %userprofile% for user-specific data?

Thankfully the number is decreasing as devs abandon that anachronistic approach. It makes cross-platform development easier too, Linux and OSX certainly don't let you keep saves in /usr or /Applications. 😉

So you mod a texture file, or make a new one - C:\User?

But I agree, things are always in flux and transition - we'll see how they pan out!

tincup wrote:

So you mod a texture file, or make a new one - C:\User?

There's obviously room for interpretation there. If you're "modifying" the game, arguably you're modifying the core game files, and that's a system-wide change. I think that's a kludgy approach for something like changing textures, but some games don't provide a "texture pack" kind of interface, so it's necessary.

But generally speaking, yes. If you have a "texture pack" you want to see when you play the game, have that file(s) in %userprofile%, and have the game load that and prioritise it over the delivered data. Same for extra maps, sounds, whatever.

tincup wrote:

But I agree, things are always in flux and transition - we'll see how they pan out!

Mm.

SquallStrife wrote:

tincup wrote:

... If you have a "texture pack" you want to see when you play the game, have that file(s) in %userprofile%, and have the game load that and prioritise it over the delivered data. Same for extra maps, sounds, whatever.

Well, I guess that's were we differ then - progress. At that stage I'm in the main game folder and willing to hose the install if it goes wrong. Restore, backup, move ahead. If a game like rFactor [virtually a mod platform] was as fiddly and reticent to modding as %profile% would require, it would be a nightmare installing and trying out mods. Hundreds+ of custom tracks, texture packs, cars packs, racing series etc. It's *assumed *you are the prime user and willing to jump in and have fun. At this level of gaming we're mechanics as much as players, and as open a garage the better.

rFactor is also basically 10 years old. 😉

I notice that rFactor 2 uses the correct approach:

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rfact … ist-hd-ui.2019/

How to install
- Drop 'rFactor 2 Minimalist UI 1.52.rfcmp' file to your packages folder usually located at 'C:\Users\Your Name\Documents\rFactor2\Packages'.
- Use Manage Mod tool from rFactor2 in order to install the custom UI, like any other normal car, track or mod.

rF2 is out of Beta? Cool!... 😀
They've anticipated the big issue by allowing the player to select the location of the ''DATA Store'' folder which basically holds all the heavy user-created mod files like cars and tracks - I'm happy with that arrangement as it'll keep C: relatively safe.

Listen this has been a fun exchange - now it's time to enjoy the holiday, and maybe give rF2 a whirl!