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Big MS-DOS question

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First post, by Godlike

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Hello everyone,

I'm new to forum and glad to say VOGONS is real and alive. Especially for vintage computing and knowledge.
I'm planning to build 586-class pc to play late MS-DOS and early windows titles.
This gonna be mid 90s system.

Prime hardware:
Motherboard: Shuttle HOT 569 Rev 2.1
Processor: Pentium MMX 233Mhz
Memory RAM: 32-64Mb (SIMM, SDRAM bottlenecking debate)
Audio: AWE32 CT3670
3D responsibility: Orchid Righteous 3Dfx Voodoo 4MB
2D responsibility: I have Mach64GX 2MB but would like to go with ET4000 if this particular could conquer all 2D games.

For me is a big question because I never had opportunity to use this graphics card and test it.
For someone maybe don't.
The reason is that I'm planning to buy one and need your conclusions about this piece of hardware.
Orchid Prodesigner II is good for AutoCAD only or DOS gaming as well? It is armed with 1MB DRAM ET4000 architecture. The question is to owners of this card or people who had tested this card. Pro II S will run all non 3D supported MS-DOS games? I mean all 2D DOS games because some of them have support for 3D accelerators.

I'm sorry for typing correction if needed, English isn't my native language.
Hope you will not throw tomatoes or bananas at my first post, ha

Godlike

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Reply 1 of 10, by HighTreason

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tomato.pngbanana.png

😜 Just kidding.

An ET4000 card would work fine. But once you have a PCI BUS - which your motherboard has - the S3 Trio 64 and especially the Trio 64V+ will really perform just as well, cost less and be easier to track down. You could even grab a Virge cheap as it has the same 2D engine and you're using the 3DFX card for 3D.

I've never used a Pro Designer II, but I don't see why it wouldn't work if you went with that one. Some people prefer 2MB cards though.

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Reply 2 of 10, by keropi

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nice build!

I'm gonna recommend (as usual 😀 ) a pci Nvidia Riva128 vga : very fast 2D engine , hardware VBE3.0 BIOS, 4MB of vram and very compatible. I've been using one for years and never looked back.
My 2nd personal choice would be a S3 vga, it just works with about everything and has good speed.

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Reply 3 of 10, by smeezekitty

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Since this is a Pentium MMX with PCI, I don't know why you would go with something as old as an ET4000. They were decent ISA cards. That's it.
There are far better choices available for PCI

Reply 4 of 10, by Godlike

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Valuable responds. Thanks to you all!
RE: HighTreason : One on this red ones splashes nicely off my screen. Let's try it. Hmmm they are fresh! I thought they could be rotten;)
RE: "nice build!" - I'm glad keropi that you like it. I'm pretty happy with 569 rev 2.1 mobo, with its stability and reliability. And believe me or not but I found this one for 10USD in my country's auction popular site (Poland;). Listing named as Intel i430TX only.
Keropi, I have Nvidia Riva128 and Diamond S3 PCI as well, as you said these are great cards. I never complain about them, especially the Diamond one. Riva 128 have 3D support, and my plan is to keep 2D and 3D on separate GPU's.
That's why question about Prodesigner II occured. I always curious in discover dark corners of the hardware and heard that ET4000 is an great architecture.
But for graphic design or gaming too!?
The build also aim to tribute to the Orchid Technology, that's second "why" I would like to go with it.
RE: smeezekitty : Concept of this build isn't focused on speed actually. I'm pretty sure I could put in it AMD K6 and V2 SLI same as 256 SDRAM. I don't need to keep it fast as this (I've got another system marked on this level with CUSL2-C). Additionally I've read couple of reviews about prodesigner II. Overall they where described as one of the best under DOS. I'm also curious if Tseng architecture also perform well under Windows95? I know that DOS likes DRAM, and Windows likes VRAM. Also I've read (Tseng official) that design maximizes the capabilities of DRAM, and eliminates the requirement for VRAM.
Any one know ET4000 is fully functional over first real OS?

Orchid Prodesigner II S
Q1: Full compatibility under W95
Q2: Able to run latest 2D DOS games

Thanks a lot!

Godlike

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ASUS P2B-F, PII 450Mhz, 128MB-SDR, 3Dfx Diamond Monster 3D II SLI, Matrox Millennium II AGP, Diamond Monster Sound MX300

Reply 5 of 10, by smeezekitty

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I'm also curious if Tseng architecture also perform well under Windows95?

Its not that good under windows. Windows likes lots of video RAM. 1 MB is hardly passable.
2 MB is decent. 4 MB is good.

It isn't just about speed. The ET4000 is also lacking in capabilities. No 2d/3d acceleration what so ever except limited 2d in the ET4k/W32P and limited memory.

Reply 6 of 10, by tayyare

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ET4000 will most probably be showing its age under Windows 95, and not in a good way. It's ISA/Windows 3.1 era tech. For those times it was almost the best, but by 1995? No, not anymore.

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Reply 7 of 10, by Godlike

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Its not that good under windows.

That is what I worried about. Sad with its capabilities and 1MB memory only (for ISA, no VLB) Will be great to see spare socket on PCB for another 1MB. If review says that this card is stable and one of the best under DOS. I'm still thinking how good is under DOS for games? I wish to have one of Prodesigner II card but nowadays price is just dissuasive. I could experiment how far it could go and try to tweak it eventually. Of course it could perform fine under Win3.1, this version it's just a DOS with shell cover. I need to solve ET4000 gaming potential. There are available SVGA drivers for Tseng ET4000 witch is very good, and I think that's the loophole I need look closer. Windows 95 minimum requirements I think will be 386/486 with VGA. Never done that and this is I would like to ask about. I hope to get opinion from owner of this card. How well it works for games. Doesn't matter what OS

Godlike

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ASUS P2B-F, PII 450Mhz, 128MB-SDR, 3Dfx Diamond Monster 3D II SLI, Matrox Millennium II AGP, Diamond Monster Sound MX300

Reply 8 of 10, by Godlike

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tayyare wrote:

ET4000 will most probably be showing its age under Windows 95, and not in a good way. It's ISA/Windows 3.1 era tech. For those times it was almost the best, but by 1995? No, not anymore.

That's true. And I'm aware of this. The thing is how fast this card could go with the latest 2D DOS games?

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ASUS P2B-F, PII 450Mhz, 128MB-SDR, 3Dfx Diamond Monster 3D II SLI, Matrox Millennium II AGP, Diamond Monster Sound MX300

Reply 9 of 10, by smeezekitty

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In 2D DOS games running in DOS, it would work fine

Reply 10 of 10, by Godlike

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smeezekitty wrote:

In 2D DOS games running in DOS, it would work fine

Thanks 4 your answer. Is there any marketplace different from popular ones (ebay etc). For hardware especially. I've got something 4 sale and wish to buy too!

Godlike!

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ASUS P2B-F, PII 450Mhz, 128MB-SDR, 3Dfx Diamond Monster 3D II SLI, Matrox Millennium II AGP, Diamond Monster Sound MX300