VOGONS


First post, by KT7AGuy

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Awhile back, I inherited an old Gateway P5-100 Baby AT desktop from my father. The case is a bit rusty and filthy, but in otherwise good condition. It has a PCI S3 Trio64V+ video card in it. The sound card is some sort of ESS model, but I'll replace that with a SB16 or AWE64 if I rebuild this computer. I don't know how much RAM it has, but I'm sure it's at least 8MB (and probably 16MB) since my father remembers running Win95 on it.

With DOSBox being what it is, I'm having trouble coming up with reasons to put this PC back into service.
(I already have a very nice P200 system for early Win9x gaming)

About the only purpose I can think of for this PC would be to run Falcon 3.0 Gold with my real CH Products gameport HOTAS. Unfortunately, I seem to remember Falcon 3.0 having problems with my old 486 DX4/120 being too fast. If the 486 was too fast for it, then surely the Pentium would be too. It looks like the slowest CPU I could downgrade to would be the P75, which is probably equivalent to a 486 DX4/120.

Does anybody else remember Falcon 3.0 Gold? Do you think a P75 or P100 is too fast for it? If not, how about a P200?

Also, what are the pros and cons when considering a SB16 or AWE64 for a pure DOS environment?
(I've never actually used my various AWE64 cards in pure DOS. I always run them under Win98SE.)

Reply 1 of 5, by chinny22

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I'm not familiar with that game but I say install it and see how it goes!
It is pretty close to the P200 in what you can run on it. Any game that doesn't like running at 200Mhz isn't going to run at 75 either. BUT does it have any sentimental value? Not much my DX2 does that my DX4 cant but the DX2 was our very 1st PC so wouldn't dream of getting rid of it.
In the end I installed Win 3.11 on it just to make it different.

Personally I prefer the AWE32 as it has true OPL chip depending on the card. I also don't bother with soundfonts so a AWE 32/ or 64 value is fine by me.
If your using an external Midi device (internal or external) I would just stick with the SB16 if not an AWE is just a SB16 with better Midi
Awe Pros
Cleanest of Creative sound cards
Can load sound fonts which some games support natively like Duke3d

AWE Cons
Needs driver loaded in memory
No OPL3 Chip (Some AWE32's are ok)
Upgrading memory on a AWE64 requires adaptor http://simmconn.tripod.com

SB16 Pros
Just works, no drivers

SB16 Cons
Noisy (I don't notice)

Reply 2 of 5, by dogchainx

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Pentium 200 is way too fast for Falcon 3.0. Not sure about a Pentium 75, but the flight model will probably be very sensitive (tip joystick to the right, you're going to do a full roll...) I played Falcon 3.0 about a six months ago on a DX4-100 and flying around was interesting since it felt like the game was way too smooth.

A 486DX2-66 would probably be the max I would try without a slow-down utility or disabling the cache, if you can.

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486DX2-66Mhz-16MB-4.3GB+SpeedStar64 VLB DRAM 2MB+AWE32/SB16+SCB-55
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Reply 3 of 5, by alexanrs

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Btw you don't really need to downgrade the Pentium 200 to a Pentium 75. Just set the bus to 50MHz and the multiplier to 1.5 and it will run like a Pentium 75. Depending on the board you can further slow it down by changing the PCI/ISA bus clock dividers, thus making the graphics card run a bit slower. Removing memory from the Trio64 might also help. If all fails, just start disabling caches.

Reply 4 of 5, by candle_86

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find unoffical bus speeds, you might get it down lower than 75

Reply 5 of 5, by KT7AGuy

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chinny22 wrote:

SB16 Pros
Just works, no drivers

Well then, an SB16 it shall be! That's a pretty big "Pro" if you ask me! 😀

If I get this PC running as a DOS machine, I figure I'll buy one of those DreamSynth wavetable boards too.

dogchainx wrote:

Pentium 200 is way too fast for Falcon 3.0. Not sure about a Pentium 75, but the flight model will probably be very sensitive (tip joystick to the right, you're going to do a full roll...) I played Falcon 3.0 about a six months ago on a DX4-100 and flying around was interesting since it felt like the game was way too smooth.

That's about how I remember it too. It ran, but it wasn't working "just right". The 486DX4/120 was just too fast for it. I also remember my old 486SX/25 being just slightly too slow for it. A 486DX2/66 is probably the sweet spot for Falcon 3.0. Or, just run it in DOSBox...

dogchainx wrote:

A 486DX2-66 would probably be the max I would try without a slow-down utility or disabling the cache, if you can.

Yep, that's probably what I should aim for.

alexanrs wrote:

Btw you don't really need to downgrade the Pentium 200 to a Pentium 75. Just set the bus to 50MHz and the multiplier to 1.5 and it will run like a Pentium 75. Depending on the board you can further slow it down by changing the PCI/ISA bus clock dividers, thus making the graphics card run a bit slower. Removing memory from the Trio64 might also help. If all fails, just start disabling caches.

Thank you all for the advice!

Disabling the cache and/or underclocking are probably going to be my only options, if it will work. I'll need to boot up both the P200 and the Gateway P100 to see what my options are.

Knowing me, it will probably take a few months to get around to it, but I'll update this thread eventually. 😵