IamFODI wrote:

Hi, all! I've been having the deadzone issue in Privateer under DOSBoz 0.74. Has there been a resolution?

Are you sure it's not just how the game has been designed? For example, is the joystick behaviour different on a real DOS machine?

The same topic comes up in Wing Commander, but there is no dead zone issue, it's just how the game has been designed. Often the issue is magnified if played on a very fast machine.

Pretty sure it's not how the game was designed.

I played Privateer a lot on real DOS machines when I was a kid, and I don't recall any such problem. I'm also reading that people with different joysticks aren't having this problem, and the ones who are having the problem don't have it in any other application, including other games in DOSBox. That tells me there's gotta be something between the hardware and the game that's eating up small input values. Does that make sense?

Moderator note: the original post here is split off from this four-year-old thread it had bumped:
Joystick Deadzone problem

IamFODI wrote:

Pretty sure it's not how the game was designed.

I played Privateer a lot on real DOS machines when I was a kid, and I don't recall any such problem. I'm also reading that people with different joysticks aren't having this problem, and the ones who are having the problem don't have it in any other application, including other games in DOSBox. That tells me there's gotta be something between the hardware and the game that's eating up small input values. Does that make sense?

I've got the game on my Pentium machine as well as DOSBox. Can check it out. But I remember this issue with Wing Commander. Google Wing Commander and joystick deadzone and there are a TON of threads. Some claiming fixes. But when played on a 386, the deadzone is integrated in the game. Meaning with the mouse you can move slower than with the joystick. With the joystick it is somewhat digital. Now on a 286 or 386SX this wasn't an issue as the machines were slow. But on a faster machine it makes aiming much harder.

I can only suspect that Privateer is similar, but I will confirm to be sure.

In the meantime can you check how the game plays vs. mouse? Can you move slower with the mouse compared to josytick?

What joystick do you have (I have a Logitech and Thrustmaster for DOSBox, and a MS Sidewinder for the Pentium).

Also use a fixed cycle speed and play around with the timed=true / false setting in the DOSBox config file. Use fcs joystick setting if you want to use the hat / map buttons to it.

Thanks for the suggestions.

The mouse lets me do whatever I want -- no deadzone.

Current joystick is a Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar. Incidentally, I'm thinking of changing that; the gimbal is worn so there's a lot of play, and I'm wondering if it's just not well suited to space sims (lots of fast joystick movement) and whether a CH Fighterstick would hold up better. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

When I set timed = true, I get game-killing joystick drift. The joystick does programmable keyboard emulation, so I don't need native support for joystick buttons or hats; that has freed me up to try all the joystick type settings, but none of them has helped.

As for cycle speed, I've tried Auto and Max, as well as 7000. No change.

Stiletto wrote:

Moderator note: the original post here is split off from this four-year-old thread it had bumped:
Joystick Deadzone problem

Thanks -- figured as much. 😀

The OP in that thread mentioned doubling the OHMS value in the code. Is there a release of DOSBox with that change made? If not, does anyone feel charitable enough to compile one?

So, I don't code, but I have friends who do. One of them made this. He said it's supposed to allow tweaking of the OHMS value in dosbox.conf. I played with it and it didn't affect the deadzone for me, but I thought I'd post it here anyway. Anyone want to take a look?

Ok I played it on a Celeron 300. There is a deadzone, just like in Wing Commander. So I'm afraid to say this, but this is all part of the game. Playing it on a slower machine / lower cycle setting with somewhat choppier graphics will improve the situation, just like in Wing Commander.

Fair enough. My only question, then, is why people with other joysticks are saying there's no problem, or that a code tweak fixes it.

I just tested Privateer in DOSBox with HOTAS Cougar Viewer on another screen. It shows values from 0-65535 on each axis, with ~32768 being the center. Depending on how I set the response curves, the game seems to ignore values between ~24000 and ~43000. That's more than 1/4th of the total range. 🙁

There are a lot of rumours / myths / stories on the Internet. I will try it in DOSBox tomorrow and check how it compares. There is one massive bug, if no joystick is connected on a DOS PC, or DOSBox config set to joystick=auto, then the music will slow down during space flight. FCS is a good option, because then you can map the hat to look around the ship for example.

Yeah, true. I'm starting to wonder if the no-deadzone reports are actually from people who just aren't noticing it. Or if the joysticks with sharper off-center response curves actually facilitate good fine control.

How about a "deadzone compensation" setting in DOSBox? It could compress the axis values into a smaller range -- e.g., to take the values I posted above, it'd translate the 37268-65535 range to 43000-65535, and the 0-32767 range to 0-23000. Ideally the boundaries would be user-selectable.

Thoughts?

there are several other topics about this. Probably including some builds that implement deadzones.

A small question, does your joystick have a circular joystick input (like the xbox controllers)
or is the stick movement restricted by a square ?

To be clear, this isn't about WANTING a deadzone. It's about getting RID of a deadzone.

right.
Could you answer the square/circle question ? (It is more important than you might think, with respect to the input values)

Okay. Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page, pun intended. :]

My joystick has a square.

Update, for what it's worth! (mostly cross-posted from another forum)

I just started using a Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Flight Stick. The deadzone is definitely still there, but it's much less disruptive.

I really think the subjective experience of the problem depends on the joystick's axis response ramps combined with its mechanical behavior around center. The stronger the response when you move the stick off-center, the easier it is to punch through the game's programmed-in deadzone and start turning the ship. But if the stick has a high effort barrier to move it off center, it'll suddenly "click" into a strong response and you'll end up turning more than you want. If your joystick's software lets you reduce the axis response near center, you'll get less of that over-response effect, but then it'll take more stick travel to get through the deadzone and you're back to square one.

The Cougar is okay when relatively new and broken in, or when freshly greased. But with all the axis play mine had, moving it around center was decidedly NOT linear and intuitive. That made it impossible to get good in-game response.

The Warthog stick is buttery smooth and has ZERO play with a minimal effort barrier around center. The game now plays fine -- still clunky, but no clunkier than one would expect given the age of the title.

I'd still love to see some deadzone compensation code as described above. Could be nice for these games.

Try playing with the mouse, it has a much narrower deadzone. Meaning, you can turn slower than you can with ANY joystick.

I wonder what the Windows 95 version is like regarding the joystick.

All my sticks have rectangular corners. USB as well as my only analogue retro stick.

I owe a lot of my childhood to the Wing Commander series. I played these games way back when they were about as immersive as things got. For me, that means joystick or nothing. I almost don't know what playing a Wing Commander game with a mouse even means. :]

IamFODI wrote:

I owe a lot of my childhood to the Wing Commander series. I played these games way back when they were about as immersive as things got. For me, that means joystick or nothing. I almost don't know what playing a Wing Commander game with a mouse even means. :]

Of course, but I just want you to try it and you will see how the game has a different dead-zone when using the mouse compared to the joystick.