I wonder if an x1300 pci would be best as it supports t&l and is very cheap to buy on ebay. The x1300 would also support 1680x1050 , the 7000 only supports 1280x768 as it's best widescreen resolution.

/\ Doubtful. Most cards you have are limited by your CPU anyway... the drivers for the x1300 might even have higher CPU overhead.

Also, at least for Direct3D, Hardware T&L was introduced with DX7, which was released at the end of 1999. Games from that time are well into Pentium 3 land, and your machine, specially since its slow even for a MMX, is not the best choice to run them.

If you really wanna try another video card, then try finding a cheap GeForce2/4 MX. They have hw T&L if you really wanna try it, but they are also older and better supported on older OSes.

So if hardware t&l was introduced long after quake 1 was released , then why would the voodoo2 be better than a radeon 7000? I mean , the 7000 might have more bulky driver than a voodoo2 , but from what I've experienced so far the 98 drivers for the 7000 are very light.

It seems I'm stuck in a place where the machines cpu/onboard isn't very good for dos games , the 7000 is very good for non dos games but then the cpu simply isn't fast enough. 🤣

I think that's why euphoria runs so well , is very light on the cpu and heavy on the gpu , so the combination of the pentium 1 and 7000 actually works. So I guess I'd have to look for visually pleasing games that are cpu light.

Agreeing with alexanr. The Radeon 7000 is already heavily bottlenecked by the CPU. Also there are no Win9x drivers for anything later than Radeon 9xxx, and you don't want XP on that machine, even W2k would be borderline.
I just mentioned T&L because glQuake/Quake II would profit a little bit from that, OpenGL can use it even with older games while DX6 games can't use it. (Even if there was no hardware T&L available for PC's when Quake was released.)
A GF2MX would be nice, Voodoo3/Banshee may be a better choice but more difficult to get. (3dfx cards are well-known for low CPU overhead.)

The machine is fine for many DOS games, you just have to pick the right ones.

You said Euphoria is a screen saver. No wonder it doesn't use the CPU a lot.
You could look for early 3D-accelerated games and then just up the resolution or other graphical features.
Still it would be best if you get the V2 to work.

emosun wrote:

So if hardware t&l was introduced long after quake 1 was released , then why would the voodoo2 be better than a radeon 7000? I mean , the 7000 might have more bulky driver than a voodoo2 , but from what I've experienced so far the 98 drivers for the 7000 are very light.

Voodoos do not have hardware accelerated T&L just like the Radeon. The main draw of the Voodoos is Glide, because it is a very lightweight API with the lowest CPU overhead (when compared to Direct3D and OpenGL).

Well I already did give the voodoo2 a try and while it was identified correctly and the drivers installed correctly , it didn't seem like the card was actually functional.

I pulled it from a gateway destination , and truthfully I didn't know if it actually functioned in that machine either.

ok I just retried the voodoo2 and after wiggling the video connector a lot it started working. Was only displaying pink for a while.

Tried unreal tournament which supports glide and it seems to work pretty well. At least it was working better than the 7000. Still might get a newer gpu to team up with it so the desktop can be a better res.

emosun wrote:

ok I just retried the voodoo2 and after wiggling the video connector a lot it started working. Was only displaying pink for a while.

Tried unreal tournament which supports glide and it seems to work pretty well. At least it was working better than the 7000. Still might get a newer gpu to team up with it so the desktop can be a better res.

I see.
So in other words what several people suggested to you 4 DAYS AGO (and you dismissed) was actually right.
Not only that - you ALREADY had the parts to try it on hand.
.

As the saying goes, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make it drink.

gdjacobs wrote:

As the saying goes, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make it drink.

^this

Different people do things differently, it's both a blessing and a curse.

gdjacobs wrote:

As the saying goes, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make it drink.

I suspect a camel would have a higher IQ than the OP. ( IQ being a measure of the ability to solve problems. )

FYI: The OP has blocked me so I'm in Stealth Ninja mode.
Just stop by now and then for entertainment value.
.

emosun wrote:

Tried unreal tournament which supports glide and it seems to work pretty well. At least it was working better than the 7000. Still might get a newer gpu to team up with it so the desktop can be a better res.

You tried UT on that machine? The CPU would be to slow even for the original unreal, and it's crippled by the cache issue. I can't imagine it working "pretty well". Quake II with the V2 might work well (should give > 40fps with L2 cache).

39 FPS in DosQuake may be lower than what you could get, but it's not that bad.
For reference, I got 39 FPS on a 200MHz non MMX pentium and 44 FPS on a 233MMX on a P/I-P55T2P4 with 256kb cache and a ET6000 (which is a very fast video card)
I could redo that test with a slower card than the ET6000.

sunaiac wrote:

39 FPS in DosQuake may be lower than what you could get, but it's not that bad.
For reference, I got 39 FPS on a 200MHz non MMX pentium and 44 FPS on a 233MMX on a P/I-P55T2P4 with 256kb cache and a ET6000 (which is a very fast video card)
I could redo that test with a slower card than the ET6000.

Yea but it was just dos quake at the lowest res. Standard glquake was 18fps regardless of resolution or color depth. The gpu is far beyond the cpu capability so 18fps is the best it can muster. I'm sure if I used the voodoo2 on quake one it might have less cpu load , but the voodoo2 didn't actually work on quake one.

emosun wrote:

ok I just retried the voodoo2 and after wiggling the video connector a lot it started working. Was only displaying pink for a while.

Tetrium wrote:

gdjacobs wrote:

As the saying goes, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make it drink.

^this

Different people do things differently, it's both a blessing and a curse.

Don't really understand what you are implying , are you implying that I didn't stick the card into the machine and try it back on page 2 only for the card to have no effect at all?

emosun wrote:

emosun wrote:

ok I just retried the voodoo2 and after wiggling the video connector a lot it started working. Was only displaying pink for a while.

Tetrium wrote:

gdjacobs wrote:

As the saying goes, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make it drink.

^this

Different people do things differently, it's both a blessing and a curse.

Don't really understand what you are implying , are you implying that I didn't stick the card into the machine and try it back on page 2 only for the card to have no effect at all?

I can explain this one...or at least try to.

It's like this:
When someone here is asking for help and another person is trying to provide help, both will have to engage by communicating with each other.

Now, if these 2 people don't understand each other, things will typically not work out well. Whether the person asking for help or the person who is trying to deliver help is to blame, is really not all that relevant. What is relevant, is that when the person who is offering to help (this is the more knowledgeable person most of the time, for obvious reasons) won't be able to have the person who is asking for help, accept the help the person who is trying to give the help is trying to provide.

And this is what was meant with the person (who is basically the shepherd here) trying to lead the camel (the camel here is the person who is asking for help) to the water, but if the camel will still not drink, the shepherd can't provide help any further, there is a point when help will not help.

Now how this translates more directly to you, is that you asked us for help and we tried to help you, but instead of accepting our help and trusting our knowledge and judgement, but decides to ignore the shepherd (who is trying to lead you to solve your problems with your computer which you have been unable to solve on your own), you're being the camel that doesn't want to drink, but you keep on being thirsty (which translates to your computer still being broken after what, almost a week?).

It's something like this I think?

about the speedsys, I was just curous about the processor benchmark number.
Example : http://i.imgur.com/hH88m.jpg
Here, the number is 4434.87 , with that number, we could detect if the processor is normal (and even if it having some problem with cache).

Also, I experienced alot of low fps in the pass with a pmmx and a voodoo 3/radeon 7200, the iuse was related to a flash drive pluged, when I swipe it out, my fps went from 17 fps to 40 in quake 2, maybe there's something pluged into your hardware that is drawing some cpu power (or even a vírus)

ibm5155 wrote:

about the speedsys, I was just curous about the processor benchmark number.
Example : http://i.imgur.com/hH88m.jpg
Here, the number is 4434.87 , with that number, we could detect if the processor is normal (and even if it having some problem with cache).

I think the benchmark number was 156 something.

Tetrium wrote:

but instead of accepting our help and trusting our knowledge and judgement, but decides to ignore the shepherd

I just typed a massive response , but deleted it......

Because there's no point in me trying to explain myself , you won't read it , you won't change your mind , why bother.

I could literally say "you are 100% right and I'm 100% wrong" and it still wouldn't be good enough. So skip it , stay if you want , go if you want , I honestly don't care anymore.

Keeping my eyes on this tread..... Seems like something is telling me that this is going to be fun. 😁