http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … -powercons.html
This article doesn't test the 9500 or 9700, but it does test other members of that family so it gives a good idea.

shamino wrote:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … -powercons.html
This article doesn't test the 9500 or 9700, but it does test other members of that family so it gives a good idea.

It looks like I will need a new psu to build a Barton/R300 pc. And quiet an expensive one too..

386SX wrote:

shamino wrote:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … -powercons.html
This article doesn't test the 9500 or 9700, but it does test other members of that family so it gives a good idea.

It looks like I will need a new psu to build a Barton/R300 pc. And quiet an expensive one too..

Or just use a dual PSU setup for peace of mind, since getting a new(non dodgy) PSU with 30+ Amps on the 5v rail these days is a madman's dream.

Munx wrote:

386SX wrote:

shamino wrote:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … -powercons.html
This article doesn't test the 9500 or 9700, but it does test other members of that family so it gives a good idea.

It looks like I will need a new psu to build a Barton/R300 pc. And quiet an expensive one too..

Or just use a dual PSU setup for peace of mind, since getting a new(non dodgy) PSU with 30+ Amps on the 5v rail these days is a madman's dream.

I never tried a double psu solution. Do I just need to shortcut the atx connector pins with only the fdd connected to the Radeon?

my 21A 5v PSU seems to work perfectly well with the 9500PRO, but it's running with a Northwood which is likely already a little on the 12v side?
perhaps combining the card with an older socket A board a fast CPU would be more of a concern.

but yes it looks like ATI only went away from using most of its power from 3.3/5v to 12v with the x800 series.

I've got a cheap L&C 450w PSU powering a Barton at up to 2400mhz and 9800XT no probs at all.

shamino wrote:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … -powercons.html
This article doesn't test the 9500 or 9700, but it does test other members of that family so it gives a good idea.

Wow... its amazing to think about how power consumption numbers have changed over the years. A 75W TDP GPU like the GTX 750 Ti is known for how it sips power and can work in nearly any system as long as it physically fits, providing a respectable mid-range gaming experience (though it was much better when it came out).

Back in 2003-2004, what would have been considered a power-hungry (and probably extremely hot and loud) overclocked X800 pulled 78 Watts, while a decent mid-range card like the 9600 Pro pulled less than twenty!

Its incredible not only that they are so much more efficient now (performance per watt) but also that so much less of the power is wasted on heat. A 225 Watt TDP card back in those days would have simply caught on fire during a gaming session. 😵

I can't speak for the 9700 because I never had one, but I do have 2 9500s and while I never actually measured the power consumption, I don't think it's too high. They're probably similar to the 9600pro from that article with regards to power requirements.

(edit) this says that the TDP for the 9500 is 12W: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/481/radeon-9500

And the 9700 is 37W: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/49/radeon-9700

The 9600Pro is 18W, so I was about right: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/31/radeon-9600-pro

Ozzuneoj wrote:

Wow... its amazing to think about how power consumption numbers have changed over the years. A 75W TDP GPU like the GTX 750 Ti i […]
Show full quote

shamino wrote:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … -powercons.html
This article doesn't test the 9500 or 9700, but it does test other members of that family so it gives a good idea.

Wow... its amazing to think about how power consumption numbers have changed over the years. A 75W TDP GPU like the GTX 750 Ti is known for how it sips power and can work in nearly any system as long as it physically fits, providing a respectable mid-range gaming experience (though it was much better when it came out).

Back in 2003-2004, what would have been considered a power-hungry (and probably extremely hot and loud) overclocked X800 pulled 78 Watts, while a decent mid-range card like the 9600 Pro pulled less than twenty!

Its incredible not only that they are so much more efficient now (performance per watt) but also that so much less of the power is wasted on heat. A 225 Watt TDP card back in those days would have simply caught on fire during a gaming session. 😵

All of the power consumption ends up as heat, but newer cards have much better cooling so they can dissipate more watts without the temperature getting too high (hopefully).

Performance per watt improves, but the wattage in absolute terms (irrespective of performance) seems to have not improved versus much older cards (although it did get worse and then better again). I think the power consumption at an idle GUI is the most important consideration over the long term, and in that respect the lowest power cards I've found in my own collection are cards from the mid-90s. However I'm not suggesting I'd want to use one of those on my daily PC. 😀
What I like about today's cards is that they can use a ton of power when it's useful (3D games) but they do a good job of throttling back in 2D, unlike older cards that just ran at a constant speed and voltage. There was a period of time when good 3D cards were wasteful in daily use.
Since I spend 99% of my life in 2D, I don't care how much power is burned in 3D as long as the wattage throttles down to a trickle when I'm done playing (and my PSU/cooling can handle the peak).

It seems necessity was the mother of invention with both CPUs and video cards becoming intelligent enough to manage their power use. It started with laptops, but we didn't see desktop CPUs with good P-state switching until hitting the peak of Intel P4s and AMD Athlon XPs each burning ridiculous amounts of power in constant use.
Video cards didn't get good at managing themselves until some of the cards got as bad as having a 2nd Prescott. Even then it seemed like the industry dragged it's feet for a while. Now that the capability has been developed and refined, we can benefit from it even on more modest cards and CPUs.

I'd look for a 2nd hand PSU from the era personally. Sometimes you can find some that have little to no use. Some of them do need recapping though.

stamasd wrote:

I can't speak for the 9700 because I never had one, but I do have 2 9500s and while I never actually measured the power consumpt […]
Show full quote

I can't speak for the 9700 because I never had one, but I do have 2 9500s and while I never actually measured the power consumption, I don't think it's too high. They're probably similar to the 9600pro from that article with regards to power requirements.

(edit) this says that the TDP for the 9500 is 12W: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/481/radeon-9500

And the 9700 is 37W: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/49/radeon-9700

The 9600Pro is 18W, so I was about right: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/31/radeon-9600-pro

12W is probably very wrong, and the 9600PRO was made in a newer process node (130nm) and should be more power efficient, it was a smaller GPU.

it's far from ideal, but when I measured my PII with no VGA it used around 52W, with the 9500PRO (so not the same as a 9500NP, but not to far off) it used 81W idle on windows and a little bit higher under load (like 85W), it also used 15W more than a Voodoo 4 4500 PCI consistently,
so my guess is a 9500PRO uses around 25-40W under high load.

386SX wrote:

I never tried a double psu solution. Do I just need to shortcut the atx connector pins with only the fdd connected to the Radeon?

You can get adapter cables for that pretty cheap on ebay.

Though now when I think about it most of the gpu power still goes through the motherboard, so using the second spu's molex connectors still wouldnt do much good.

SPBHM wrote:

12W is probably very wrong, and the 9600PRO was made in a newer process node (130nm) and should be more power efficient, it was […]
Show full quote

stamasd wrote:

I can't speak for the 9700 because I never had one, but I do have 2 9500s and while I never actually measured the power consumpt […]
Show full quote

I can't speak for the 9700 because I never had one, but I do have 2 9500s and while I never actually measured the power consumption, I don't think it's too high. They're probably similar to the 9600pro from that article with regards to power requirements.

(edit) this says that the TDP for the 9500 is 12W: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/481/radeon-9500

And the 9700 is 37W: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/49/radeon-9700

The 9600Pro is 18W, so I was about right: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/31/radeon-9600-pro

12W is probably very wrong, and the 9600PRO was made in a newer process node (130nm) and should be more power efficient, it was a smaller GPU.

it's far from ideal, but when I measured my PII with no VGA it used around 52W, with the 9500PRO (so not the same as a 9500NP, but not to far off) it used 81W idle on windows and a little bit higher under load (like 85W), it also used 15W more than a Voodoo 4 4500 PCI consistently,
so my guess is a 9500PRO uses around 25-40W under high load.

Well all I can say is that my 9500s don't seem to get too hot even under load, and the HSF that they have on (which is the dinky little one, same as geforce2) does a good job at keeping them cool.

Today I've seen a FSP Hydro G Gold 750W 25/25A japanese made capacitor based psu quiet expensive but it seems good for a Barton high end machine.

386SX wrote:

Today I've seen a FSP Hydro G Gold 750W 25/25A japanese made capacitor based psu quiet expensive but it seems good for a Barton high end machine.

A $100 modern 750 Watt PSU with only 25A on the 5v rail isn't what I'd call ideal for socket A. That PSU has 62A on the 12v rail, which will largely go unused. 😵

I'd just try running the system on whatever you have lying around and test the 5v rail to see how much its actually drawing from the PSU.

Ozzuneoj wrote:

386SX wrote:

Today I've seen a FSP Hydro G Gold 750W 25/25A japanese made capacitor based psu quiet expensive but it seems good for a Barton high end machine.

A $100 modern 750 Watt PSU with only 25A on the 5v rail isn't what I'd call ideal for socket A. That PSU has 62A on the 12v rail, which will largely go unused. 😵

I'd just try running the system on whatever you have lying around and test the 5v rail to see how much its actually drawing from the PSU.

I know, it's the best I've found in shops but I didn't buy it for now. Having real 30A on the 5V rail is not that easy. Maybe is really better to use an old psu hoping it will not need to change capacitors.

stamasd wrote:

Well all I can say is that my 9500s don't seem to get too hot even under load, and the HSF that they have on (which is the dinky little one, same as geforce2) does a good job at keeping them cool.

unless you are talking about 9550s (which are downclocked 9600s), the 9500s even required an additional power connector, and they tended to be somewhat sensitive to cooling when OCing, making it clear that they are probably running near the limit most of the time, the stock cooler used to be considered not good for most Radeons at the time.

on my card I added a case fan under the card to help the Vantec (http://www.vantecusa.com/en/product/view_detail/92) cooler which seems to run to hot without this help (but that's from touching the thing, there is no temp sensor)

actually this vantec cooler was a funny coincidence, I bought this card (9500PRO) with it last year, but back in the day I bought one of the exact same model to upgrade my 9100 (8500LE), and later got a 9500NP with the exact same cooler installed... this is my third card with this model of cooler by accident.

How about something like this xD

http://www.ebay.de/itm/WaterProof-12V-24V-to- … r-/161620117958

But absolutely no guarantee.

h-a-l-9000 wrote:

How about something like this xD

http://www.ebay.de/itm/WaterProof-12V-24V-to- … r-/161620117958

But absolutely no guarantee.

Interesting! But this should be modded inside the PSU or at the final wires connector?