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DOS Build according to Privateer 2

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First post, by Overheat

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Hello all,

I'm planning to build a fresh DOS PC for gaming and I don't want Windows anywhere near it if possible. Thinking about what specs I require I decided to look over my big box collection and see what some of the more demanding DOS games require. As such I came across Privateer 2: The Darkening which reads as follows:

Requirements: Pentium 60MHz or higher; 8MB RAM; 36MB Hard Drive free space; 1MB Vesa 1.2 Compatible video card; Triple speed CD-ROM; Microsoft Mouse (v8.2 or above) or 100% compatible; Soundblaster or 100% compatible sound card.
Recommended: Pentium 90+ MHz; 12MB RAM; Soundblaster 16 sound card; 4x CD-ROM or higher.
Supported: Soundblaster Pro/16/AWE32, Pro Audio Spectrum, Gravis Ultrasound, Ersoniq Soundscape, MPU401 (Music Only) & 100% compatibles, joystick.

So, from this spec, it would seem that the perfect DOS machine would have a Pentium 120/133, 16MB RAM and Soundblaster AWE32 - all fairly easy to achieve. However, then comes the bit I'm confused about, the graphics card. When I look for a VESA card, it brings up VLB cards, but the only motherboard that supports VLB and would be able to use a P120/P133 would be a Socket 4 with a Pentium Overdrive - a seemingly rare and costly combination.

So, I feel I'm misinterpreting these specs and any DOS compatible 2MB/4MB ISA graphics card will work? Also, I'm not sure what the "1.2" refers to on the VESA spec. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Reply 2 of 20, by h-a-l-9000

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"Vesa 1.2 Compatible" relates to the software interface of the video card (VBE - VESA BIOS extensions), not the VLB (VESA local bus). 1.2 is not a high number for this standard - most PCI cards should have it, and if not there is still UniVBE TSR which implements the standard for many different chipsets.

1+1=10

Reply 3 of 20, by CkRtech

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Long time friend of mine brought Privateer 2 over to my place earlier this year, and we played it on my Pentium 100 with a Matrox Millennium just fine.

The VESA requirement is referring to VBE (VESA Bios Extensions). VBE 1.2 is rather old (relative to the release of Privateer 2). If you are running a Pentium system with a PCI graphics card, I am fairly certain you are going to be just fine.

I have only recently heard of the term "VESA card" used when referring to VESA Local Bus. Back when I got a VLB card for my 486, they were called "VLB." As far as I am concerned, they should always be called VLB.

"VESA" is an umbrella term when paired with specific hardware. It is a standards association, and naturally those standards cover a wide array of subjects (486 VESA Local Bus, VESA Bios Extensions, computer monitor mounting standards, etc)

h-a-l-9000 beat me to it...I just really took a long time to write out my thoughts. haha

Overheat wrote:

However, then comes the bit I'm confused about, the graphics card. When I look for a VESA card, it brings up VLB cards, but the only motherboard that supports VLB

...

Also, I'm not sure what the "1.2" refers to on the VESA spec. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Displaced Gamers (YouTube) - DOS Gaming Aspect Ratio - 320x200 || The History of 240p || Dithering on the Sega Genesis with Composite Video

Reply 4 of 20, by Overheat

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Thanks for your replies guys.

I've had a look at a few more games and it seems that I might need to up my spec a bit anyway:

Broken Sword requires VESA 2.0
Rally Championship needs 2MB graphics
and Ecstatica II requires 16MB RAM and P133

So, I'm thinking more P200 with 32MB RAM and 4MB PCI card. I don't want to go too high as I assume this will cause issues in trying to get pure DOS drivers and what not. I guess AGP isn't supported in DOS also?

Reply 6 of 20, by h-a-l-9000

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AGP alone is nothing that would break compatibility - however the cards are from a time where good DOS compatibility was not in focus any more. And the higher speed has the potential to cause older games to malfunction.

Compatibility for these cards has to be researched by model. Trio / Virge sound good because they have one of the most compatible VGA cores.

1+1=10

Reply 7 of 20, by clueless1

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In my experience, some of the more demanding DOS games when run in SVGA (640x480) really need something closer to a 200Mhz Pentium to play smoothly. These include System Shock, Descent 2, Blood, Duke Nukem 3D, and US Navy Fighters. If you stick to VGA (320x200), then a P133 should be more than enough.

As for graphics cards, PCI or AGP is the way to go if your focus is on late (1995+) DOS games. If you want some of the best compatibility as well as built-in VESA support (so no need to run a Univbe TSR), go for Nvidia. The best chipsets include TNT2, TNT2 M64, and GeForce 2MX. They all have awesome DOS performance and support.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 8 of 20, by Overheat

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Ah that's good to know. I definitely would like a rig that can play Duke Nukem 3D in SVGA, so I'll have to look at Socket 7 it seems. Is there a CPU that is too fast for MS-DOS 6.22, or does this basically boil down to motherboard compatibility?

I actually have a spare 4MB S3 Trio 3D and 32MB nVidia Geforce 2 MX400, both are AGP, so these have DOS drivers available? And will the 32MB option cause some compatibility issues? The earliest game I have in collection at the moment is Railroad Tycoon, though I do plan to get some earlier games like Populous, Lemmings and Prince of Persia to name a few.

It seems very few people are running pure MS-DOS 6.22 and most people have a Windows install too, so it's quite confusing trying to figure out what will actually work. My first ever PC was acquired quite late in 1998, which was Windows 95, so I only ever really messed around with DOS at school, which had 286, 386, 486 etc from what I remember and then Windows 3.1 - so I'm quite new to the whole DOS thing, however compatibility issues with my Windows 95 PC are making me think that I'd like a dedicated DOS gaming rig that Windows is banished from.

Finally, I just noticed that Carmageddon and a couple other games mention that they require MSCDEX 2.25 and above - which seems to be something that comes with CD-ROM Drives on their supplied floppy disk. Is there another way to obtain these, or am I better off looking for NOS CD drives?

Reply 9 of 20, by clueless1

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Most late-era DOS games work fine on faster cpus. You can check here for speed-based compatibility issues:
http://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_C … sensitive_games

No need for graphics card drivers in DOS. It "just works". I haven't personally had any issues with 32MB graphics cards in late DOS games. Not sure about older DOS games.

Lots of folks here run pure DOS setups. I have two of them myself!

Keep in mind that link above of speed sensitive games. The faster your CPU, the more likely you will come across issues with older DOS games. In my experience, 1994 seems to be the cut-off year for DOS games that started behaving with faster CPUs, but there are exceptions (like Colonization).

Many older games will play fine on a fast Pentium if you disable L1 cache. That List of CPU Sensitive Games gives lots of recommendations on making older games work.

MSCDEX is a DOS driver for CD-ROM drives. It comes with DOS, so as long as you have a legit DOS 6.22 (or whatever) install media, you're good to go.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 13 of 20, by Overheat

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Okay, so my current Windows 95 PC that I'm having issues with is below:

Motherboard Dell E139761 Slot 1
CPU Intel Pentium II 350Mhz
RAM 128MB PC100 168pin
Video ATI Rage Pro Turbo 8MB AGP
Sound Creative Sound Blaster Vibra 128 PCI CT4810
HDD Maxtor 10GB IDE
Optical Compaq CRD-8322B CD Drive 32x
Removable Compaq Floppy
Case Compaq DeskPro EP6500
PSU Dell PS-5201-7D 200W

I was planning to swap the CT4810 for a CT2950 that I've just ordered to hopefully get Discworld and Simon the Sorcerer to work, but theoretically if I were to basically wipe this clean and install DOS 6.22, would I have any issues or would it all "just work"? Also, is there any way to dual boot DOS and Win95, so that I get the option of which to use when the computer loads up? I guess this would involved partitioning the hard drive to avoid conflicts...

Reply 14 of 20, by clueless1

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Do you have any extra hard drives? If so, install DOS by itself on it, then you can answer all your compatibility questions. Then you can decide whether you want to dual boot or not.

An easy dual boot option (if you BIOS supports "select device to boot from") is to have separate drives for DOS and Win95, then hit F9 (or whatever BIOS option allows to select boot device) and pick the drive you want to boot to.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 16 of 20, by clueless1

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swaaye wrote:

Allow me to post this for the bazillionth time. 😀
http://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

I wonder if that chart can be stickied or linked to at the top of Marvin.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 18 of 20, by Stiletto

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clueless1 wrote:
swaaye wrote:

Allow me to post this for the bazillionth time. 😀
http://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

I wonder if that chart can be stickied or linked to at the top of Marvin.

One thing I didn't realize - Gona returned in June 2016 to the page and started adding more results and utilities! If you haven't visited recently, you should check it out. 😀

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do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 19 of 20, by synrgy87

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I have a similar build in the works using a Pentium-S 120 32mb ram an S3 Virge DX (i think it's 4MB) PCI card, undecided on the sound card as I have a AWE64 gold but it's in another system,
and have a Yamaha card on order (YMF718-S).

from what I've listened to the Creative VIBRA cards are not very good at all.

But if DOS is what your aiming for with no windows then S3 cards seem to have good compatibility, they're relatively cheap and there's loads about in both PCI and AGP form, or old nvidia cards.
There's also the ATI options in the past when i had a 700mhz celeron and wanted to play some DOS games i found my Radeon 9000 64MB PCI card seemed to work fine with them so maybe a 7000 or 8000 series would too?

Not had a chance to test out the S3 Virge DX yet with DOS games as I'm waiting on parts ( sound card, hard drive, serial mouse )