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Best (Super) Socket 7 motherboard?

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Reply 20 of 152, by Panties

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I do own the EP-58MVP3C-M EPOX , you can add that to the list.

Here's some useful links about this board:-
EP-58MVP3C-M EPOX
http://www.motherboard.cz/mb/epox/EP-58MVP3C-M.htm
http://www.elhvb.com/mobokive/Archive/Epox/ma … als/58mvp3c.pdf

It was pre-installed with AMD-K6-II 400Mhz ATZ , and strangely, the BIOS shows 450Mhz at boot-up.
However, I took a "leap of faith" and purchase the processor AMD-K6-III+ from ebay:-
http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/122004272460?_trks … K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Multiplier - 5x jumper (MAX)
Clock - 60-100 (but I set it to 66Mhz at jumper)
CPU Core Voltage - 2.1V (The LOWEST I can set on the Jumper, though the processor only require 1.6V)

Although during boot up, it shows -MMX at 66Mhz,
I was able to play around with the Multiplier using SetMul (via Software).
Set Multi shows me 375Mhz on 5x.
However, I could go up to 6x (MAX) using SetMul, higher than the motherboard jumper, which give me 400Mhz.

The board is very stable, and I am very please to use it, for my 4 in 1 Gaming, as per Phil's video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcAqRbFFQPU

BTW, The Reason why I purchase the processor, is because the original processor that came with it, do not support SetMul for some reason.. D:

😀

Reply 21 of 152, by brostenen

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The three best, that I have had between my fingers are:

Gigabyte GA-5AX
Asus P5A
FIC PA-2013

All have their own strength, and all have their drawback's.
The FIC board that I have tried, were revision 2.0 wich has a bad AGP port. (Voodoo3 draws too much power, and will fry the board) Though the FIC had 1mb of cache on it, had no trouble with TNT2 cards (some MVP3 has trouble). On the FIC, you have space for a big cooler.

The ASUS are a stable board, can run Voodoo3 (no bad AGP port). Just watch out for revision numbers, as I had 1.3 and 1.4 at some point, and the 1.3 had some stability issues on some CPU's. 1.4 has no issues like that. The worst part, is that the ATX power connector is placed right next to the CPU socket, wich makes it hard to find a good CPU cooler. 60mm coolers are simply too large.

The Gigabyte is a good and stable board. I had it back in 1999 to 2003 (revision 4.X) and it worked days on end without reboot. Simply just stable. A little more room for a bigger cooler than the P5A, just not as much as on the FIC. The drawback with this board, is that it is not as fast as the FIC and the Asus.

This is how I experienced the boards. There are no such thing as the ultimate SS7 board, as there are allways some kind of issue when comparing to other SS7 boards out there. Though a FIC PA-2013 with a non crippeled AGP port and in the 2mb cache model, comes really close to be the ultimate SS7 board out there, if you ask me. I think that is the revision 2.1

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 22 of 152, by soviet conscript

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I'm glad someone mentioned the FIC 2013. It's a great board. I'm not sure of my revision but it's the 2mb cache version and I've never had any issues with it. Very fast as well.

Reply 23 of 152, by kanecvr

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After a few years of testing super socket 7 mobo + CPU combinations, here's my top 4 pics:

No 1: Aopen AX59PRO

Specifications and highlights:
- ATX form factor
- VIA MVP3 + 686B
- up to 2MB of L2 cache
- 3 SDRAM slots for up to 768mb of ram
- dip switch selectable voltage and mutliplier - no finicky jumpers
- FSB from 60 up to 124Mhz
- voltage range from 1.3 to 3.5v in 0.5v increments
- Supports HDDs up to 160GB (tested with a seagate DB35)
- Native AMD K6-III support
- some revisions have a CPU thermal sensor
- 4x PCI, 2x ISA

PROs:
- great AGP performance and compatibility. Dispite CPU limitations, lots of games are perfectly playable at 1600x1200 with a fast video card (I use a Geforce 2 GTS).
- excellent memory compatibility - the AX59PRO will run anything you put in it.
- great overclocker - most my K6 CPUs regardless of model will OC from 25 to 50% and more on this board
- very comprehensive BIOS

CONS:
- memory performance is average for an MVP3 board - tops out at 250mb/s using 2t 100mhz ram
- some revisions have the via ultra-dma bug common on apolo pro socket 370 boards (uses the same southbridge). Fortunately the one I currently use does not.
- bad FDD connector position. Makes cable management messy.

No 2: Lucky Star P5MVP3-XX or MSI MS-5184*

Specifications and highlights:
- AT form factor with dual ATX and AT power connectors. Will fit in an ATX case.
- VIA MVP3 + 686B (only the XX and XE models - the rest have the slower 686A)
- 512kb to 2MB of silly fast L2 cache, depending on version
- 2 SDRAM slots for up to 512mb of ram - will take sigle sided 256mb ram modules as well
- FSB from 66 up to 112Mhz
- voltage range from 1.9 to 3.5v
- Supports HDDs up to 160GB (latest beta bios)
- AMD K6-III support (bios update required on most boards)
- 3x PCI, 3x ISA

PROs:
- AGP 2X selectable in BIOS - and actually working (tested with RivaTuner and 3dmark 01), as well as AGP Master 1 WS Read / Write - on this board they don't affect stability and improve perfomance when enabled.
- excellent AGP performance and compatibility - best out of all super 7 boards I've tested regardless of chipset
- good memory compatibility
- best memory performance out of all tested MVP3 boards - up to 280-300 mp /sec
- good overclocker. Only limided by the few voltage increments, but 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 are selectable options. Other then that, most fast K6-2 and K6-III CPUs have no trouble running at 550 and even 600MHz stable.
- dual AT and ATX power connectors - you can use this board in a standard ATX case or use an AT case to save space

CONS:
- overclocking limited by few voltage options - running low power laptop K6-2+ and K6-III CPUs, you might as well overclock since you're stuck at 1.9v (some chips are rated to as low as 1.6v - like the K6-IIIE+ 400ATZ)
- not the best jumper layout
- some boards require bios update for larger hard drives and AMD K6-2+ / K6-III CPUs
- most early boards come with 512kb l2 cache and the 686A southbridge witch is only capable of ATA33.

* believe it or not the MSI MS-5184 and the Lucky Star P5MVP3 are allmost the exact same board. Both are made by Lucky Star Inc. and have the same layout sans the MS-5184's extra PCI slot - BUT the latest P5MVP3-XX (the late 99 revision with the ATA66 southbridge) has 4 PCI slots as well. Late revision P5MVP3-XX boards are IDENTICAL to the MS-5184 but usually have a green PCB where the MSI is brown and most lucky star boards are orange / brown. This version also comes with the label "P5MVP3-AT" and is sometimes branded "Viking 3". Oddly enough some Viking 3 boards use the MVP4 chipset but somehow retain the AGP slot. On-board Trident Blade 3D can be disabled in BIOS. These are EXTREMELY rare.

No 3: FIC PA-2013+ REV 2.1

Specifications and highlights:
- ATX form factor
- VIA MVP3 + 686B (newer revisions, earlyer ones come with the slower 686A)
- 512kb to 2MB of L2 cache
- 3 SDRAM slots for up to 768mb of ram
- FSB from 60 up to 124Mhz
- voltage range from 1.8 to 3.5v in 0.1v increments
- Supports large HDDs
- Native AMD K6-III support
- 4x PCI, 2x ISA

PROs:
- atx form factor
- 3 SDRAM slots - supports up to 768mb of ram
- good AGP 2x implementation***
- good memory compatibility
- good overclocker - allows voltage increase in 0.1v incements
- fast ATA66 IDE controller
- good jumper layout

CONS:
- *** rev 2.0 and lower has no AGP voltage regulator, and as such can't handle some video cards - particularly fast voodoo 3 cards like the 3500 and later nvidia cards
- has trouble running chips at 600MHz. Selecting 2x multiplier sometimes yields an odd 201Mhz clock, other times it hags the machine after posting - this behavior apparently only occurs when using chips with on-die L2 cache
- BIOS updates can be hard to find.
- slow L2 cache.

No 4: Asus P5A

Specifications and highlights:
- ATX form factor
- ALi Aladdin V chipset
- 3 SDRAM slots for up to 768mb of ram***
- FSB from 66 up to 120Mhz
- voltage range from 2.0 to 3.5v
- Supports HDDs up to 80gb - even larger with beta bios
- AMD K6-III support
- 5x PCI, 2x ISA, one PCI and one ISA share a bracket
- some boards come with a decent on board sound solution with good DOS compatibility - useful if you need to save an expansion slot.

PROs:
- ATX form factor
- AGP 2X capable
- good memory compatibility
- best memory performance out of all super 7 boards - exceeds 350mb/sec.
- great layout
- excellent expansion options with 5 PCI slots and 2 ISA slots
- voltage is selectable in 0.1v increments

CONS:
- ***can only cache 128mb of ram - a limitation of the ALi Aladdin chipset. I personally run 256MB on my AX59PRO witch helps with Firefox 2.0 (grabbing patches, drivers etc). 128mb is not enough and using more then that makes the P5A silly slow. I'm not sure if using a K6-III cpu bypasses said limitation - I don't think so, since I tested the board with 256Mb of ram and a K6-III and it seemed just as slow as with a K6-2.
- poor AGP performance and compatibility
- some AGP cards will have trouble running correctly (tested with Geforce 2 Ultra and Voodoo 3 3500) - works fine with a TNT2 pro, geforce 2 MX or a voodoo 3 2000. For some reason refuses to post with a Voodoo 4 (powercolor evilking 4)
- rather sensitive boards - the ALi Aladdin northbridge is easily damaged by overclocking and in some cases AGP cards.
- idiotic FSB jumper positioning - requires you to remove AGP cards to get to the jumpers.
- slow ATA33 IDE controller

As for other boards, the gigabyte GA-5AX is SLOW - I don't recommend this board at all. Came across two in my time collecting retro gear, and they both showed poor AGP performance as well as mediocre (at best) memory performance. The shuttle HOT-591P is a mediocre board - it doesn't stand out with either speed, overclockability or features.

I've heard good things about the DFI K6XV3+/66, but haven't had the chance to test one myself. The Chaintech 5AGM2 is also a very good board - great PCB design and more capacitors then any MVP3 I've seen. I used to have one back in 2001 running router software - the thing was on continually for 3 years and didn't act up once. The EPOX EP-MVP3G2 and EPOX EP-MVP3G5 are also supposedly very good but I've never been able to test one.

Last edited by kanecvr on 2016-10-11, 22:59. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 24 of 152, by Paadam

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I had Chaintech 5AGM2 years ago, with K6-2 450 CPU, Voodoo3 AGP, 128 MB RAM, loved that rig.

Lately found 5AGM2 again, in excellent shape, working like a champ and equipped with K6-2 500AFC CPU. it is baby-AT board, AGP, 3x PCI, 3x ISA, 3x DIMM. If you need one I can sell it to you for a reasonable price (shipping is reasonable too to Germany).

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Many 3Dfx and Pentium III-S stuff.
My amibay FS thread: www.amibay.com/showthread.php?88030-Man ... -370-dual)

Reply 25 of 152, by vetz

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I personally prefer the Epox EP-MVP3 boards (the jumper positioning is just so good) and the Aopen AX59PRO

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 26 of 152, by devius

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kanecvr wrote:

The EPOX EP-MVP3G2 and EPOX EP-MVP3G2 are also supposedly very good but I've never been able to test one.

But if you had to chose, would you prefer the EP-MVP3G2 or the EP-MVP3G2? 🤣

Reply 27 of 152, by kanecvr

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devius wrote:
kanecvr wrote:

The EPOX EP-MVP3G2 and EPOX EP-MVP3G2 are also supposedly very good but I've never been able to test one.

But if you had to chose, would you prefer the EP-MVP3G2 or the EP-MVP3G2? 🤣

woops 🤣 I meant to say EP-MVP3G5, but somehow ended up writing EP-MVP3G2 twice 😜

Reply 28 of 152, by candle_86

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devius wrote:
kanecvr wrote:

The EPOX EP-MVP3G2 and EPOX EP-MVP3G2 are also supposedly very good but I've never been able to test one.

But if you had to chose, would you prefer the EP-MVP3G2 or the EP-MVP3G2? 🤣

It is a great motherboard, it runs my K6-3 450 @ 577 with a rinky dink cooler, and I got the chip up to 672 but the cooler couldn't handle the heat and the board auto shutdown at 80C 🤣.

Reply 29 of 152, by kanecvr

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Panties wrote:

CPU Core Voltage - 2.1V (The LOWEST I can set on the Jumper, though the processor only require 1.6V)

- I'm pretty sure that board can do 1.8v - I remember coming across a manual for it someware.

Panties wrote:

Although during boot up, it shows -MMX at 66Mhz,

That's because the board has no bios support for the CPU. I'd recommend looking for a BIOS update - besides being able to properly detect the CPU, you might get a performance and stability increase. Also, most boards do not run the K6-III's on die L2 cache w/o a bios update so that's worth looking into. The on die L2 cache helps a lot in fpu intensive games.

Panties wrote:

I was able to play around with the Multiplier using SetMul (via Software).
Set Multi shows me 375Mhz on 5x.
However, I could go up to 6x (MAX) using SetMul, higher than the motherboard jumper, which give me 400Mhz.

Your board supports 5.5x multiplier as well. Even if it's not listed in the manual, do a google search or mess around with undocumented jumper configurations. As for 6x, you can set that by jumper - you need to select 2x multiplier for 6x on K6 chips.

Why in God's name are you using the 66MHz FSB? You can use the 100MHz fsb setting and still slow the machine down to 386 levels using setmul - but the 100Mhz bus is a great asset for windows and dos SVGA games, not to mention 3D games. All K6 chips take a serious performance hit at 66mhz.

Reply 30 of 152, by boxpressed

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Although it isn't as feature-rich as some of the other boards mentioned, the FIC VA-503+ has been a nice board for me. I bought it at retail back in 1998 or so, and it still works perfectly. I used it with a K6-2 350 back in the day, and today it runs a K6-3+ 550 oc. I assume that other SS7 boards have similar jumper configs for the FSB, but I'm able to use the Turbo switch on my case to switch between 100MHz and 66MHz FSB.

Here's a thread I created about my build: K6-3+ Daily Driver Finally (Almost) Complete

Reply 31 of 152, by Panties

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kanecvr wrote:
- I'm pretty sure that board can do 1.8v - I remember coming across a manual for it someware. […]
Show full quote
Panties wrote:

CPU Core Voltage - 2.1V (The LOWEST I can set on the Jumper, though the processor only require 1.6V)

- I'm pretty sure that board can do 1.8v - I remember coming across a manual for it someware.

Panties wrote:

Although during boot up, it shows -MMX at 66Mhz,

That's because the board has no bios support for the CPU. I'd recommend looking for a BIOS update - besides being able to properly detect the CPU, you might get a performance and stability increase. Also, most boards do not run the K6-III's on die L2 cache w/o a bios update so that's worth looking into. The on die L2 cache helps a lot in fpu intensive games.

Panties wrote:

I was able to play around with the Multiplier using SetMul (via Software).
Set Multi shows me 375Mhz on 5x.
However, I could go up to 6x (MAX) using SetMul, higher than the motherboard jumper, which give me 400Mhz.

Your board supports 5.5x multiplier as well. Even if it's not listed in the manual, do a google search or mess around with undocumented jumper configurations. As for 6x, you can set that by jumper - you need to select 2x multiplier for 6x on K6 chips.

Why in God's name are you using the 66MHz FSB? You can use the 100MHz fsb setting and still slow the machine down to 386 levels using setmul - but the 100Mhz bus is a great asset for windows and dos SVGA games, not to mention 3D games. All K6 chips take a serious performance hit at 66mhz.

About BIOS Update... That's what I am afraid of...
I normally download BIOS Update from the official website, however, since there is no official website for E-POX anymore... I am reluctant to do so. Because bear in mind, that I only have this machine as my Only Retro computer left in my home. Do u know where can I find the appropriate BIOS update for this board?
I don't wanna.. "brick" it.... 🤣 😕

About selecting the 2x multiplier...
Hmm...If I select 2x multiplier instead of 6x at jumper, that would slow down the processor upon boot up. Why must I do that? 😲

About 66Mhz... well, because I wanted the flexibility to go down as low as 386. I just follow Phil's tutorial @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcAqRbFFQPU.
I don't mind putting back to 100Mhz.... but are you sure that it is advisable to put to 100Mhz? 🤣
Because... any games that requires faster than 450Mhz and above, I just use my modern computer, ICore7, to play those.

Do let me know.. I appreciate your feedback on this.

Reply 32 of 152, by kanecvr

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Panties wrote:
About BIOS Update... That's what I am afraid of... I normally download BIOS Update from the official website, however, since the […]
Show full quote

About BIOS Update... That's what I am afraid of...
I normally download BIOS Update from the official website, however, since there is no official website for E-POX anymore... I am reluctant to do so. Because bear in mind, that I only have this machine as my Only Retro computer left in my home. Do u know where can I find the appropriate BIOS update for this board?
I don't wanna.. "brick" it.... 🤣 😕

About selecting the 2x multiplier...
Hmm...If I select 2x multiplier instead of 6x at jumper, that would slow down the processor upon boot up. Why must I do that? 😲

There is no 6x jumper on MVP3 boards. 5.5x is the max multiplier you can set by jumper. ALL K6-2 and K6-3 CPUs interpret 2x as 6x internally.

Panties wrote:
About 66Mhz... well, because I wanted the flexibility to go down as low as 386. I just follow Phil's tutorial @ https://www.yout […]
Show full quote

About 66Mhz... well, because I wanted the flexibility to go down as low as 386. I just follow Phil's tutorial @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcAqRbFFQPU.
I don't mind putting back to 100Mhz.... but are you sure that it is advisable to put to 100Mhz? 🤣
Because... any games that requires faster than 450Mhz and above, I just use my modern computer, ICore7, to play those.

Do let me know.. I appreciate your feedback on this.

There is very little difference between 100 and 66mhz fsb when running the CPU with disabled cache. Less then 10% - but there's quite a bit of difference between 66 and 100MHz FSB when running the CPU at full speed. Games like Quake 2, Half Life, Dungeon Keeper 2 and alike will see a noticeable performance gain. And good luck playing DK2 on your i7 - just not gonna happen, unless you like software mode (no 3d acceleration) and having it crash to desktop every 20 minutes.

Reply 33 of 152, by Panties

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kanecvr wrote:

There is no 6x jumper on MVP3 boards. 5.5x is the max multiplier you can set by jumper. ALL K6-2 and K6-3 CPUs interpret 2x as 6x internally.

Do let me know.. I appreciate your feedback on this.

Hey Kanecvr,
Thank you very much for E-Du-Ca-Ting Me... ! 🤣 I followed the motherboard manual and put it to 5x to get the best.
Little did I know.....about... ALL K6-2 and K6-3 CPUs interpret 2x as 6x internally.

I now set it to 2x and it is MAX CPU SPEED! THANK YOU!!!! 🤣! 😎 😎

I learn a new thing again... 😀 I am now getting 600 Mhz with 100Mhz FSB... Thank you very much!

kanecvr wrote:

There is very little difference between 100 and 66mhz fsb when running the CPU with disabled cache. Less then 10% - but there's quite a bit of difference between 66 and 100MHz FSB when running the CPU at full speed. Games like Quake 2, Half Life, Dungeon Keeper 2 and alike will see a noticeable performance gain. And good luck playing DK2 on your i7 - just not gonna happen, unless you like software mode (no 3d acceleration) and having it crash to desktop every 20 minutes.

HAHAHHA... 🤣! DK2...! I haven't played that, in agesss... xD I need to find that CD.. somewhere... 🤣....
Speaking of speed, Can I let it run at 600Mhz all the time? It's overclocking over the original 450Mhz..... or 500Mhz is the best? It is running on Stock cooling ,with CoolerMaster ThermalPaste...
Do advice me please.... appreciate the feedback.. =)

Reply 34 of 152, by kanecvr

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I'd say it's best to run it at 550MHz. There's very little performance gain at 600Mhz (~5-7% in games over 550Mhz) witch is a limitation of the CPU's architecture. It doesn't scale very well over 500Mhz - as such, safer cocks would be best for longevity. Mine does 550MHz at 1.85v stable (400MHz K6-III+ ATZ 1.6v) but requires 2.1v for 600Mhz stable - so I'll stick with the lower voltage setting.

Reply 35 of 152, by devius

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I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't even see the point of overclocking old PCs, unless you're into that sort of thing and that's your primary objective to begin with.

I mean, if a game runs too slow on a K6-2 450MHz it will probably not be that much faster on the same CPU at 600MHz (law of diminishing returns of SS7 and all that). If you need more performance, just build a faster Pentium III or Athlon machine.

Reply 36 of 152, by brostenen

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Yeah....
If an K6-II/III/non+/+ setup can run stable at more than 500mhz overclocked, then it's fine.
Personally I will let other people overclock. I am not going to.
No need to overclock old hardware. It's old and a bit more fragile than 2014/16 stuff.

I just do not expect this line of CPU's to run higher than aprox 500/550.
If I want more power, I simply go for something like a P-III-500+mhz setup.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 37 of 152, by kanecvr

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devius wrote:

I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't even see the point of overclocking old PCs, unless you're into that sort of thing and that's your primary objective to begin with.

I mean, if a game runs too slow on a K6-2 450MHz it will probably not be that much faster on the same CPU at 600MHz (law of diminishing returns of SS7 and all that). If you need more performance, just build a faster Pentium III or Athlon machine.

Agreed. From 400Mhz to 500Mhz you will see a ~ 18-20% difference, but going higher, performance percentage will diminish greatly.

Reply 38 of 152, by brostenen

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And looking at the prices on SS7 hardware these days, it would allmost be a disaster killing it by overclocking.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 39 of 152, by dr_st

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kanecvr wrote:

No 1: Aopen AX59PRO

This was the board they originally put in my K6-II system. I seem to recall it was nice, but after about 1.5 years it failed. My system was bought as part of a batch for this college, and the main technician there told me after the fact that many of these AX59-Pro failed for them roughly around the same time.

kanecvr wrote:

I've heard good things about the DFI K6XV3+/66, but haven't had the chance to test one myself.

This is the one I have in my system right now. Can't remember if I replaced the AX59Pro with it directly, or whether there was some ASUS in between, which also failed at some point.

The board still works fine, I like the features and the layout, but the bottom ISA slot appears to be dead now. Still have two, so I'm OK.

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