Considering that the games of the era were not written with gamepads in mind (since they did not exist), I would not think that a gamepad would be a good idea.

I just sold two of these ancient "Archer" joysticks. They might be appropriate:

I've still got my old Gravis Gamepad Pro but it doesn't seem to work at all on any of the ancient games I play on my 5150... plus the D-Pad is terrible.

Is the switch on the back in the right position?

In pretty sure the Gravis Gamepad Pro requires drivers. There's actually a list of Gravis Gamepad compatibile games on Mobygames, and the oldest is from 1991. As far as I can tell it isn't natively backward compatible with the old 4 button 4 axis standard.

From what I understand, gamepads that are backward compatible with this standard simply use a DAC to convert digital gamepad controls to the equivalent of pushing an analog stick to its maximum in a given direction. I'd assume that any gamepads that go out of their way to limit themselves to 4 buttons at a time most likely do this.

I did just order a brand new, sealed Interact PC Propad 4 for less than $5 shipped. Quite a deal! Hopefully it works for what I need. I still want a joystick though. 😀

Ozzuneoj wrote:

In pretty sure the Gravis Gamepad Pro requires drivers. There's actually a list of Gravis Gamepad compatibile games on Mobygames, and the oldest is from 1991. As far as I can tell it isn't natively backward compatible with the old 4 button 4 axis standard.

😒 Yes, that's exactly what the switch on the back is supposed to control.

The GamePad Pro employed advanced signaling techniques (referred to as "GrIP") to allow for both the use of ten buttons and the simultaneous use of up to four controllers connected by the controller's built-in piggyback plug. A switch on the pack of the non-USB pad could be used to allow the pad to function as a standard four-button pad; otherwise, games couldn't detect the gamepad unless they were coded with the device in mind (DOS) or a specific driver was installed (Windows).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravis_PC_GamePad

Ozzuneoj wrote:

From what I understand, gamepads that are backward compatible with this standard simply use a DAC to convert digital gamepad controls to the equivalent of pushing an analog stick to its maximum in a given direction.

Yes, exactly. Some games might have been written with intermediate positions of the analog stick in mind.

Jorpho wrote:

:blah: Yes, that's exactly what the switch on the back is supposed to control. […]
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Ozzuneoj wrote:

In pretty sure the Gravis Gamepad Pro requires drivers. There's actually a list of Gravis Gamepad compatibile games on Mobygames, and the oldest is from 1991. As far as I can tell it isn't natively backward compatible with the old 4 button 4 axis standard.

😒 Yes, that's exactly what the switch on the back is supposed to control.

The GamePad Pro employed advanced signaling techniques (referred to as "GrIP") to allow for both the use of ten buttons and the simultaneous use of up to four controllers connected by the controller's built-in piggyback plug. A switch on the pack of the non-USB pad could be used to allow the pad to function as a standard four-button pad; otherwise, games couldn't detect the gamepad unless they were coded with the device in mind (DOS) or a specific driver was installed (Windows).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravis_PC_GamePad

Ozzuneoj wrote:

From what I understand, gamepads that are backward compatible with this standard simply use a DAC to convert digital gamepad controls to the equivalent of pushing an analog stick to its maximum in a given direction.

Yes, exactly. Some games might have been written with intermediate positions of the analog stick in mind.

I see. Well, I assumed that's what the button on the back did but I haven't gotten any response whatsoever from any application or game on my IBM using the Game Pad Pro at any setting. I'll try tinkering with it again... its possible (likely) that I've overlooked something. I admittedly didn't invest a lot of time into it because I've never liked the D-Pad on that controller... its just so mushy and imprecise.

If gamepads in general just won't work for this particular purpose, I definitely need more recommendations on joysticks. 😀

Just wanted to mention, I got my $4 InterAct PC Propad 4 and it is indeed brand new in its box in perfect condition. It still had the plastic film around the D-Pad. I'm happy to say that it works great on my IBM 5150 in DOS 3.3. I used Checkit to test the buttons and the D-Pad and it works fine there. Alleycat works great, as does King's Quest. Its a lot more relaxed of an experience than using a huge analog flight stick to wander around... still last week I made an offer on a Kraft Premium III that looked to be in good condition and got it for a decent price (around $10 shipped), so that should be a bit more suitable for this system where the Propad isn't just right.

One thing that is still puzzling is Elite. As expected, its way too touchy for a D-Pad, but strangely enough it still limits the pitch and rotation to about 3/4 of their maximum (as it did with my Quickshot QS201 joystick), so I can't turn fast (dogfights are impossible). As far as I can tell, the game seems to limit the joystick to this for some absurd reason. Keyboard arrow keys allow for the full range of motion, as does the mouse, but the game just seems like its meant for an analog joystick. Maybe I should try it with my 286 card switched off. I have a bad feeling that the 8088 isn't fast enough on its own for the game, but it could be some kind of compatibility or timing issue.

Does Elite not include some form of calibration program? Something along the lines of "center the joystick now, now press it fully in one direction", etc?

Jorpho wrote:

Does Elite not include some form of calibration program? Something along the lines of "center the joystick now, now press it fully in one direction", etc?

No, it only says "center joystick and press a button" once you choose the joystick setting. It makes no mention of moving it around for calibration. This seems to be how a lot of PC games worked in the 80s.

Just wanted to mention that my Kraft Premium III arrived yesterday and it is in great shape externally. I knew going into it that it was untested so I was prepared to make any small repairs necessary, and sure enough part of the mechanism that attaches to the X-axis potentiometer had cracked at some point so it didn't always turn the pot. After some fighting with superglue (Loctite UltraGel Control Super Glue seems like a great glue for this kind of thing) and attempting to improve their design somewhat (I actually drilled a small hole in the metal shaft of the pot so that the tightening screw could actually grab into it), it is now working great! I don't know if it'll necessarily last forever, but it was fairly inexpensive for such an old controller, and there's so little to it internally that it'd probably be fairly easy to fix if anything else breaks. Its crazy to think that these controllers have no internal circuitry, chips or boards. Just two potentiometers and 3 momentary switches, wired directly into the gameport of the computer. The joystick is nothing more than a housing to make these things easier to manipulate for gaming purposes. I wish things were this simple now...

Sadly, Elite still doesn't let the joystick X or Y axis go beyond 3/4 in either direction. Still, the game is far easier to play with the Kraft than with any other method I've found. This style of stick definitely had its place in 80s PC games... I'd be interested to see how a mini stick like this would perform in more modern applications. To me it feels like it has the precision of a flight stick with most of the speed of an analog stick on a gamepad... an interesting combination!