VOGONS

Gotek and Ontrack problem

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First post, by c0keb0ttle

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So, I ran into an annoying problem today.

I wanted to use Ontrack to make my 486 DOS machine see the full 16GB SD card I have, and since I don't have the "magic" unbranded 9.57 retail version that Phil uses I had to make do with a Seagate 9.56a version. It installed fine and everything seemed to be working, but I ran into a curious problem with my Gotek floppy emulator.

When I boot the computer from the SD card (with the overlay) the Gotek will no longer switch reliably through the different floppies on the USB stick. Or rather, the Gotek might be switching but DOS no longer does. If I list the contents of the floppy disk, and then switch the Gotek to next disk, I can not see the contents of the new disk. The DIR command will still show the previous floppy label and file list, no matter how many times I rerun the command.

I think the Gotek has switched as it should (and as is indicated on the display) but it is like DOS has "cached" the contents of the floppy and will not refresh it. It's something possible to force it to refresh by jumping between CD-ROM and floppy, doing file lists on each. Unfortunately this is a real problem when you try to install programs or games which requires you to switch floppy disk during the installation. Since they only see the contents of the "first" disk, it is impossible to complete the installations.

I should add that if I boot from an ordinary boot floppy (and not loading the Ontrack overlay) everything works fine again, but of course DOS can't see the hard drive then.

I also tried an earlier IBM branded version of Ontrack, and it showed the same issue.

Anyone else has run into this problem?

Edit:

Every version I've tried shows the same problem. 🙁

The issue can appear already during the installation of the Ontrack overlay. If I boot from the Ontrack disk I can install it fine, and the problem becomes apparent first after reboot. If I boot from an ordinary Win98 boot disk (which works fine), changes disk to the Ontrack floppy manually (works fine) and starts the installation manually, I run into the problem. During the Ontrack installation procedure the program wants me to reinsert my Win98 boot floppy, but no matter if I switch to the correct slot on the Gotek, the program will just continue to prompt me for the boot floppy, since it apparently can't see that I have switched disk.

Edit again:

Sometimes, having Ontrack installed, when doing soft reboots it just hangs and I get "HDD Controller Failure". Doing a hard reboot clears this issue. (But not the Gotek problem).

I'm beginning to think it's a hardware incompatibility with my ISA controller card.

Reply 1 of 5, by Jepael

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Maybe the IDE-to-SD adapter is not acting like a real hard drive. So maybe it is the same thing interfering with floppy disk change signal that exists with CF cards. Reading port 0x3F7 that is.

If you change to real hard drive, does it fix the issue?
Or change the IDE-to-SD adapter to secondary IDE port?

Reply 2 of 5, by c0keb0ttle

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Jepael wrote:

Maybe the IDE-to-SD adapter is not acting like a real hard drive. So maybe it is the same thing interfering with floppy disk change signal that exists with CF cards. Reading port 0x3F7 that is.

You know, you are on to something. I hadn't yet tried to just use the SD card and adapter without Ontrack and just formatting it to the 489MB the bios can use, but now that I do I notice I get the same problem.

So the reason it worked earlier when I booted from a boot disk must've been not because the Ontrack overlay didn't load, but because the computer didn't see the SD card at all without it?

I have the most common SD IDE adapter from Ebay (see picture).

Jepael wrote:

If you change to real hard drive, does it fix the issue?
Or change the IDE-to-SD adapter to secondary IDE port?

I haven't tried a real drive yet, but when I use my CF IDE adapter with a 512MB CF card it all works perfectly, and I can change disks on the Gotek just fine.

So my CF adapter works, but the SD adapter does not, probably?

Unfortunately I only have one ISA controller card, and it only has a single IDE connector. I might try it in my Pentium III system tomorrow and see what happens there. I'll try to find my old 6GB IDE drive as well, just to confirm that other types of drives are working fine like the CF adapter.

Reply 3 of 5, by Jepael

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c0keb0ttle wrote:

So the reason it worked earlier when I booted from a boot disk must've been not because the Ontrack overlay didn't load, but because the computer didn't see the SD card at all without it?

I don't know why it worked, maybe there are extra checks when booted from a disk.

c0keb0ttle wrote:

I haven't tried a real drive yet, but when I use my CF IDE adapter with a 512MB CF card it all works perfectly, and I can change disks on the Gotek just fine.

So my CF adapter works, but the SD adapter does not, probably?

Not really, because CF card adapters are passive, so it might mean the CF card is actually emulating a hard drive correctly. What brand/model is it?

c0keb0ttle wrote:

Unfortunately I only have one ISA controller card, and it only has a single IDE connector. I might try it in my Pentium III system tomorrow and see what happens there. I'll try to find my old 6GB IDE drive as well, just to confirm that other types of drives are working fine like the CF adapter.

But the problem might not exist on the P3 motherboard if it has hardware workaround for this. The IDE port is connected more directly through chipset IDE controller, while floppy may be through legacy ISA bus. Not a comparable situation.

One workaround here on Vogons suggested to load drivparm in config.sys with parameters to ignore hardware disk change signal.

Reply 4 of 5, by c0keb0ttle

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Jepael wrote:
c0keb0ttle wrote:

I haven't tried a real drive yet, but when I use my CF IDE adapter with a 512MB CF card it all works perfectly, and I can change disks on the Gotek just fine.

So my CF adapter works, but the SD adapter does not, probably?

Not really, because CF card adapters are passive, so it might mean the CF card is actually emulating a hard drive correctly. What brand/model is it?

Just a bog standard Ebay CF adapter with a mounting bracket.

s-l1600.jpg

Reply 5 of 5, by Jepael

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c0keb0ttle wrote:
Jepael wrote:
c0keb0ttle wrote:

I haven't tried a real drive yet, but when I use my CF IDE adapter with a 512MB CF card it all works perfectly, and I can change disks on the Gotek just fine.

So my CF adapter works, but the SD adapter does not, probably?

Not really, because CF card adapters are passive, so it might mean the CF card is actually emulating a hard drive correctly. What brand/model is it?

Just a bog standard Ebay CF adapter with a mounting bracket.

I meant the card (because adapters are passive and don't cause the issue).

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