VOGONS


First post, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Hi... (First up, click on image for larger one 😉 )
I have made a kind of test and comparison of various MS-Dos VGA cards, people tend to bring up whenever the question "best card" are being asked for. And since I have some of the cards in my collection, I wanted to make investigate this on my own. I thought long about what the question "best dos card" would span over, and thought that numbers are great. What about price, and how they work in real situations?
I am going to focus on standard resolution in the games that I am going to play. No high resolution gaming. Going old school on this.

The machine I tested these cards on, are a Shuttle HOT-555a 3.2 motherboard with a Pentium-133 and 32mb Ram.

So I have done this thing of benchmarking the cards I have. Then looking at how much they cost and finally making a note on how they perform when launching some games.....

First up the benchmark numbers. This is both with UniVBE 6.7 running and without any UniVBE running (kind of "vanilla" card if you like)
Some of the numbers are marked as N/A, because the cards can not run 640x480 without UniVBE.
And the TNT2 is marked out, because UniVBE reports "No SuperVGA Chip Detected".

The attachment DosBenchPCI-001.JPG is no longer available

Now... Pricing.... (every price is in US Dollars)
I have written N/A in 5 places, regarding the TNT1. Because I can only find one single Diamond Viper V550 128bit PCI on eBay.
Mind, that these prices are eBay prices. And the cards will be found cheaper locally. I have gone for eBay purely because I was
thinking on those people that are new to this and/or have no local online sales place to turn to.

The attachment DosBenchPCI-002.JPG is no longer available

Real life experience....

Games tested:

- Civilization
- Dyna Blaster
- Doom-1 + 2
- Pinball Fantasies
- Epic Pinball
- Lotus "the ultimate challenge"
- Jazz Jackrabit
- Duke Nukem II
- Duke Nukem 3D

Both S3 cards, and the CL-5446 runs these games without problems. All three cards run smooth in native original old school standard resolution. The only issues that I have had, are some games require UniVBE loaded and some do not. Speedwise, this does not really matter. S3 cards are more bright and the contrast are more clear/clean compared to the 5446 card. The 5446 looks a bit more old school kind of, on a TFT monitor. Again... Speedwise, it does not matter at all, wich 3 cards are chosen for a retro build. It all comes down to preferance of the image quality, or how it looks if I put it this way.

The TNT1 card runs the stuff just as good as the other 3 cards, named before, and the TNT2 does the same.

Conclusion...
Well.... To me it does not really matter, because I have all of them. For others... That is up to each person to figure out.
My advice is to get the cheapest, because you will not feel any speed differences when gaming.
They all feel the same. So yeah... Get the cheapest unless you are turned on by pure benchmark numbers.
Another little thing to look after, are that a TNT2 lacks some specific technology, making it... Not really... Well...
Not really the best card for some games. As far as I remember, it is early 90's dos games that will have trouble.
So... Yeah... TNT2 for late Dos gaming.

The winner in my book are: CL-5445 for something like a 486 machine, because I like the image quality better than S3 cards. If I did not care for this, then it would be the Trio64v+ for a 486 that would have won. The TNT2-M64 wins, when going for high-res in high end Pentium-1/2 systems.

What do people say?

EDIT:
Well. Forgot to name the looser in my investigation. The looser is the Diamond Viper V550.
It looses big time, because of the pricetag. If you have one, then fine, then go for that.
The card it self is a wonderfull card. TV-Out, is 128 bit and all that. Just too darn expensive.

Last edited by brostenen on 2016-11-20, 00:58. Edited 1 time in total.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 1 of 7, by PhilsComputerLab

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Very nice!

You got to tell me where you find these TNT2 PCI cards for those prices, I never have much luck.

This whole "best this, best that", yea it can get a bit annoying. Because it depends so much on what games you play. It seems it's always the same "troublemaker" games getting mentioned, but me for example, I don't play any of them 😊

Price is a good reason and it's great that prices are still low for some of these cards. I need to get some more PCI cards...

YouTube, Facebook, Website

Reply 2 of 7, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
PhilsComputerLab wrote:
Very nice! […]
Show full quote

Very nice!

You got to tell me where you find these TNT2 PCI cards for those prices, I never have much luck.

This whole "best this, best that", yea it can get a bit annoying. Because it depends so much on what games you play. It seems it's always the same "troublemaker" games getting mentioned, but me for example, I don't play any of them 😊

Price is a good reason and it's great that prices are still low for some of these cards. I need to get some more PCI cards...

Ohhhhhh.... F**K.... You got me there. Yes. This is the only error I made.
I did search for PCI explicitly, yet I did not really look after the search result, if it was AGP or PCI.

I knew I did some big bummer. Yeah... Never mind the pricing then. 🤣

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 3 of 7, by PhilsComputerLab

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

A bugger, got my hopes up there 🤣

YouTube, Facebook, Website

Reply 4 of 7, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Well thought out, well put together. I agree with your conclusions for the most part. The only thing I didn't understand was why you omitted the TNT2 scores because "because UniVBE reports "No SuperVGA Chip Detected"."

edit: strike that. I got myself confused. 😊

What I meant was, why no score for Quake 640x480 on the TNT1 and 2? They are both natively VBE2.0 capable.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 5 of 7, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
PhilsComputerLab wrote:

A bugger, got my hopes up there 🤣

Yeah...
I can report, that I have seen TNT2-M64 PCI cards locally, from 3,57 US Dollars as the cheapest and 21,43 US Dollars as the most expensive. The downside is that there are probably only 4 to 5 cards to be found during a 6 month time period.

Example....
http://www.dba.dk/andet-god-pci-agp-grafikk/id-1026344430/

That is 7.14 US Dollars for a TNT2 PCI (Card number 17)

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 6 of 7, by clueless1

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
brostenen wrote:
Yeah... I can report, that I have seen TNT2-M64 PCI cards locally, from 3,57 US Dollars as the cheapest and 21,43 US Dollars as […]
Show full quote
PhilsComputerLab wrote:

A bugger, got my hopes up there 🤣

Yeah...
I can report, that I have seen TNT2-M64 PCI cards locally, from 3,57 US Dollars as the cheapest and 21,43 US Dollars as the most expensive. The downside is that there are probably only 4 to 5 cards to be found during a 6 month time period.

Example....
http://www.dba.dk/andet-god-pci-agp-grafikk/id-1026344430/

That is 7.14 US Dollars for a TNT2 PCI (Card number 17)

I think I paid about $15-20 each for the two that I own.

The other factor here is benchmarking is fun. 😀 Especially in DOS, it is easy and fast to get results, and cards are pretty inexpensive. I have bought video cards just to benchmark, without any expectation that I'd use it full-time in any retro machine. 🤣

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
OPL3 FM vs. Roland MT-32 vs. General MIDI DOS Game Comparison
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks

Reply 7 of 7, by brostenen

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
clueless1 wrote:

Well thought out, well put together. I agree with your conclusions for the most part. The only thing I didn't understand was why you omitted the TNT2 scores because "because UniVBE reports "No SuperVGA Chip Detected"."

edit: strike that. I got myself confused. 😊

What I meant was, why no score for Quake 640x480 on the TNT1 and 2? They are both natively VBE2.0 capable.

I marked the non-univbe as N/A because the benchmark suite used, has a tiny flaw.
I know I can set them manually and all that. This is just that there are no numbers running it without Univbe.
And yeah.... I am a bit lazy. Just so much to do. So I guess I am just plain old lazy. 🤣

Anyway...
Just take this as a kind of hint, on what to basically get when looking at price vs. imagequality vs. speed.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011