VOGONS


First post, by Jed118

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Good day,

It's been a while since I posted here. The other day, while working at my Uni, I came across an old 386 machine in a prof's office. Weeks of emails back and fourth yielded not only the 386 machine (all boxes, manuals, original CRT with box, keyboard, mouse, and Raven 24pin printer), but a host of literature about software from the era, and as a bonus, a P100 clone with 16Mb RAM and a 1.3G hard disk - It won't boot because it will not remember the hard disk parameters (even though they are entered before boot time) due to a dead battery (DS1287 - yay...).

In any case, the 386 is giving me several problems. First, the BIOS is INCREDIBLY complex. I did receive the manual which was read front to back (supports three different types of RAM, none of which are SIMMS - I just purchased 1Mb worth of SIPPS from Poland) but even the manual points to the utility diskette - Which of course I don't have. If anyone has it, it's called NEATsx QuickSet. So, first problem I have (see attached pictures) is the fact that I have 1Mb RAM but the BIOS only sees 640K (tests 1024K ok, but BIOS and BIOS summary show 0K extended). The manual does not indicate how to configure it, however occasionally (twice to be exact) when booting holding the INS key, it *will* see the extra 384K, but by then it's too late to go into the XBIOS and see what the table configuration looks like, as it has booted. Of course, it doesn't keep these settings because they're fail-safe. Interestingly, sometimes when booting up holding "INS", it will count 512KB, other times 896KB - Very strange behaviour. If anyone can help with activating the EMS memory, please help!!

Interestingly, the hard disk (A seagate 157A) was *seized* and didn't spin up. After an hour of trying different BIOS C/H/S settings, I took the drive in my hand as the computer was turning on, as I started to think that this disk is very quiet for the type and era... Hey, wait a minute, I can only hear the head mechanism actuate! Plus, on this drive there's an exposed part of the platter bearing, and it was not moving. So, a quick, flat smack against the table and we're in business again. I've never seen a drive seize like that before...

After two hours of messing with the settings, I decided, to hell with this, I'm booting it up and putting Windows 3.0 with base memory. Now, the computer has an ATI Wonder card (256K... Need to get me some 4-64 RAM chips for the 512K upgrade) which has a BUS mouse port. I have a BUS mouse, so I put it on. The autoexec calls mouse.com from the video driver directory and the test program (and DOSSHELL) see it and it works. Time to load Windows. As the setup does its hardware scan, it fails to detect the mouse. I manually go over and put in "Logitech BUS or PS/2" and continue with the setup. I walk away after putting in Disk #2 (this is the part of the install that turns on the GUI portion of Windows) only to return moments later to a completely dead - as in, no power anywhere. Standard troubleshooting revealed that the I/O card (2 COM, 1 LPT, 1 Game) is causing a short somehow and not permitting the powering on of the computer. Take that card out, computer comes to life. Put it back in, power supply makes a weird noise and nothing happens. Is it possible that I blew the I/O card by selecting (likely the wrong) driver for the BUS mouse? Luckily, the Winchester/FDC is on a different card, so I can still use the computer, however Windows still doesn't see a mouse. Can anyone explain this I/O card death, and possibly point me to a Microsoft InPort driver for windows 3.x?

Here are some pics:

http://imgur.com/a/0Eyzb

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!

Reply 1 of 7, by stamasd

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First thing you need to do is make sure the RTC/CMOS battery is replaced. Then you will probably see most of the randomness go away.

As for the SIPP memory, you can easily "make your own"; some people solder terminals to regular SIMM modules (pin spacing is the same with SIMM and SIPP), but I did something different. I bought a number of connectors for SIMM modules, the kind that would be soldered to the motherboard. They fit perfectly into the SIPP sockets, and you can easily install SIMMs in them. No soldering required.

I/O, I/O,
It's off to disk I go,
With a bit and a byte
And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O

Reply 2 of 7, by Jo22

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stamasd wrote:

As for the SIPP memory, you can easily "make your own"; some people solder terminals to regular SIMM modules (pin spacing is the same with SIMM and SIPP), but I did something different. I bought a number of connectors for SIMM modules, the kind that would be soldered to the motherboard. They fit perfectly into the SIPP sockets, and you can easily install SIMMs in them. No soldering required.

Cool, good idea! 😎 I've never found a place to buy these things, though.
So I had to walk the hard way and soldered some resistor legs onto the SIMMs (had no access to solder terminals).
Wasn't that fun, but giving a 286 machine more than a lousy MB was totally worth the hard work! 😁

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 3 of 7, by Jed118

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The RAM is really my least concern, and also the 1Mb SIPPs were 45PLN (like $10 CAD) - I do have some SIMMS lying around, but they're all the 4MB per stick variant, and I don't want to mutilate those.

The BIOS battery was replaced this morning, I'm not sure if it has a good charge, so I'll find out this evening when I get home from work.

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!

Reply 4 of 7, by Jo22

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If the BIOS is your problem, you could try to replace its chips..
Judging by its name, the NEATSX chipset is a successor of the original NEAT chipset.
Perhaps there are other, less complex versions available.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 5 of 7, by stamasd

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Jo22 wrote:
stamasd wrote:

As for the SIPP memory, you can easily "make your own"; some people solder terminals to regular SIMM modules (pin spacing is the same with SIMM and SIPP), but I did something different. I bought a number of connectors for SIMM modules, the kind that would be soldered to the motherboard. They fit perfectly into the SIPP sockets, and you can easily install SIMMs in them. No soldering required.

Cool, good idea! 😎 I've never found a place to buy these things, though.

Think I got mine from Jameco. I bought a whole bunch once, just to make the shipping charges worth it... 😀

(edit) Here you are, not sure it was the exact same part though, and they were a whole lot cheaper a few years ago when I bought mine. Think I paid $0.25 each back then.
http://www.jameco.com/z/2000-1X30S-R-Socket-S … abs_100302.html
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/100302.pdf

I/O, I/O,
It's off to disk I go,
With a bit and a byte
And a read and a write,
I/O, I/O

Reply 6 of 7, by Jo22

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stamasd wrote:
Think I got mine from Jameco. I bought a whole bunch once, just to make the shipping charges worth it... :) […]
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Jo22 wrote:
stamasd wrote:

As for the SIPP memory, you can easily "make your own"; some people solder terminals to regular SIMM modules (pin spacing is the same with SIMM and SIPP), but I did something different. I bought a number of connectors for SIMM modules, the kind that would be soldered to the motherboard. They fit perfectly into the SIPP sockets, and you can easily install SIMMs in them. No soldering required.

Cool, good idea! 😎 I've never found a place to buy these things, though.

Think I got mine from Jameco. I bought a whole bunch once, just to make the shipping charges worth it... 😀

(edit) Here you are, not sure it was the exact same part though, and they were a whole lot cheaper a few years ago when I bought mine. Think I paid $0.25 each back then.
http://www.jameco.com/z/2000-1X30S-R-Socket-S … abs_100302.html
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/100302.pdf

Awesome! Thank you very much! 😁

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 7 of 7, by Jed118

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OK so I did a little more research, and it seems someone 12 years ago had a similair issue:

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread.p … n-a-386XT/page3

Now, I've discovered the INS trick and used it prior, and I did it again after reading this guy's post (Lucky bugger went up from 512k past his 640k imaginary limit to a FULL 4096k!) but all I get when I follow this procedure is a downgrade to 512k myself from a total of 1024k. The next time I do this and I go into XCMOS setup, I get bank 1 DISABLED, when before bank 1 and 2 were ENABLED and showed 256k under DRAM type. It is worth mentioning that I have four 44256 chips + two 41256 (parity) per bank for a total of 512K per bank. Somehow holding down the INS key disables a bank. Saving and rebooting while holding down INS again restores the 1024k RAM count and then also shows 256K DRAM in bank 1 and 0 (with 1 wait state and presumably all the safe defaults loaded) - I change the wait state to 0 (it can handle it according to the rough calculations in this page http://margo.student.utwente.nl/el/pc/bios/ami31.htm), save and restart, then counter shows 1024K again. CMOS throws a "memory mismatch" error, so I go into the BIOS (standard CMOS setup, not XCMOS) and to my huge surprise, the BIOS summary shows my missing 384K of RAM! - I save the BIOS parameters, reboot.... and into DOS where HIMEM starts to check extended memory.

Most excellent. I'm not entirely sure what went wrong, but if anyone has this issue with the NEATsx chipset and lacks the setup disk, this is apparently how to fix it.

Now it's time to optimize the wait states and find an InPort mouse driver for Windows 3.0.

**Quick edit - For anyone else experiencing this issue - The CORRECT method to restore ext. memory is to boot with INS held down, go into XBIOS (XCMOS?) Quick Setup (1st option) change the WAIT STATE of RAM to 0, save changes and exit to restart. Go into the BIOS again (where you set drive parameters) and check to see EXT memory. If there, SAVE AND EXIT. I'm not sure exactly how WAIT STATE affects the system's ability to count EXT RAM, but this is the simplified method I have found works (over 10x now since I'm experimenting with CLK settings and occasionally throwing the computer's config into an unbootable state)

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!