VOGONS


First post, by foey

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I've become bored with Maxing PCs recently. Whilst it's great seeing your all time fave game run flawlessly there was always a part of me wanting to deal with period correct budget hardware.

Prepare yourself for a splash of 1999 budget hardware.
This would have been a typical off the shelf machine, I've seen a number of examples back in the day in Tiny or Mesh machines in the UK. Socket 7 with no AGP. At the time Intel was the chip to have but came at a premium.

Imagine yourself as a 12-15 year old lad, you only have access to the family machine and you've just started to get into games.

CPU AMD K6-2 450mhz 3Dnow!
RAM 128mb SD-RAM PC100 (Probably would of been 64mb on this machine, I don't have any 64mb sticks) 120mb usable
Motherboard FIC PAG 2130 VIA Apollo MVP4 Chipset @ 100mhz fsb
Graphics Via VT8501 Blade3D graphics accelerator, 8mb Video RAM taken from the system RAM.
Sound Via AC-97 / ISA ES1868 card
Optical DVD-ROM
OS Windows ME

PAG-2103_zpsou6fi0td.jpg

With no AGP in sight, it will be interesting to see how this Integrated solution deals with what we throw at it.

This integrated chipset (Trident Blade3D graphics core) is the last one from VIA designed for Socket 7 CPUs. […]
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This integrated chipset (Trident Blade3D graphics core) is the last one from VIA designed for Socket 7 CPUs.

64-bit 2D/3D graphics processor;
From 4 to 8MB frame buffer located in the system memory;
Integrated 24-bit 230MHz RAMDAC;
Peak triangle generation rate - 2.5 mln per second;
Fill rate speed - 110 mln pixels per second;
Anisotropic and trilinear filtering support;
32-bit rendering;
11-level MIP-mapping;
Full anti-aliasing support;
DVD and MPEG-2 hardware acceleration;
API DirectX 6 and OpenGL support.

There is a review on the chipset/Graphics solution here :- http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/d … pollo-mvp4.html

Upon installing Windows ME, I had to source the graphics card drivers - there was no generic driver which supported the chipset out of the box with ME. I installed the latest drivers I could find. These were from 2002. The very sparse options on the re-branded S3 Panel.

Via-VT8501_zpswnrucb4a.jpg

First impressions are good, very clear VGA quality and 2D performance in Windows seems decent at first glance.

3DMark 99

All of the tests displayed correctly and quite crisp, there were no textures missing and the initial FPS for the first test was around the 17fps mark. Slightly higher than I expected.

Defaults (800x600) - 1049 3DMarks / 5241 CPU 3DMarks
640x480 - 1279 3DMarks / 5247 CPU 3DMarks

Quake 2

Next up, Quake 2. (Low-Quality Sound) Whilst it was just playable, sub 20fps all textures displayed correctly and colours looked good. It did look very dark and had to ramp up the brightness within the game to get it somewhere where it should be.

OpenGL 640x480 - 18.6fps
OpenGL 680x600 - 14.7fps
Software 640x480 - 15.4fps

Quake 3

Yup, even Quake 3! To be honest, I half expected this not to run. But it did! Textures look OK, Gun textures even a default (Medium) lack detail.

OpenGL 640x480 @ defaults, Timedemo 001 - 10.6fps

Theme Park World

No benchmarking but a typical family game I used to own back in the day. It runs very average, FPS around 18~20fps but is very playable at the start. No doubt it will slow down dramatically with big theme parks. All textures looked correct and present.

Overclocking

I tried to use Powerstrip to overclock the IGP. The default memory clock was 57mhz, no matter I moved the slider to performance remained the same.

Conclusion

We all knew this was never going to be a gaming GPU, however - its compatibility has surprised me. Clear VGA image, OpenGL compatibility. The system is crying out for a Voodoo 2 which would be a nice upgrade for the system. I'll get round to testing some DOS games and compatibility.

Please let me know if you want me to try anything else.

Cyrix Instead Build, 6x86 166+ | 32mb SD | 4mb S3 Virge DX | Creative AWE64 | Win95
ATC-S PIII Tualatin Win9x Build :- ATC-S PIII Coppermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Reply 1 of 11, by ODwilly

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Love this system, and from the pics you posted nicely put together. Would love some external pics as well.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1

Reply 2 of 11, by BSA Starfire

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What a lovely little machine, I also have a thing for budget solutions from that same era, have a couple built up, a K6-2 450 on SiS 530 motherbord(basically a 6326 graphics core) & Cyrix MII PR333 with a built-in ATi RAGE PRO Turbo(memory is not shared).
I also have a Trident 3D BLADE turbo AGP card, on systems it will work in it is really decent, but it doesn't like a lot of my boards, if I remember right it doesn't post in the majority of them.
Anyhow, thanks for sharing 😀

286 20MHz,1MB RAM,Trident 8900B 1MB, Conner CFA-170A.SB 1350B
386SX 33MHz,ULSI 387,4MB Ram,OAK OTI077 1MB. Seagate ST1144A, MS WSS audio
Amstrad PC 9486i, DX/2 66, 16 MB RAM, Cirrus SVGA,Win 95,SB 16
Cyrix MII 333,128MB,SiS 6326 H0 rev,ESS 1869,Win ME

Reply 3 of 11, by chinny22

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No!!!!!!!
I cringed when I read this. No AGP, RAM stealing Graphics, just needs a soft modem to become pure evil! (ISA sound card was a nice touch btw, budget systems kept them round for years after PCI had become standard)

Still this is the kind of hardware the vast majority would have played on back then, so really is a better representation of era correct machine.

I for one though have no desire to go back to those days 😜

Reply 4 of 11, by Tetrium

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Overall nice rig and a nice approach of building one 😀

foey wrote:

Graphics Via VT8501 Blade3D graphics accelerator, 8mb Video RAM taken from the system RAM.

Interesting to see this. I only ever saw Blade3D as discrete graphics solutions, but those were made by Trident?

foey wrote:

I've become bored with Maxing PCs recently. Whilst it's great seeing your all time fave game run flawlessly there was always a part of me wanting to deal with period correct budget hardware.

I've always tried to also build non-maxed systems (partially because I often simply didn't have max parts available at the time), I've also tried a Blade3D rig combined with a K6-2/333 (SiS5598 motherboard) and it wasn't too bad..even though it was more of an experimental rig.

I do should have the driver somewhere (dug deep somewhere on some spare backup harddrive from years ago I presume), but I have no idea these will work with an integrated variant.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 5 of 11, by leileilol

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They had laptops just like this spec too 😀

To inch the most speed out of this is to disregard OpenGL rendering, stick to Direct3D where you can and wrap OpenGL to Direct3D, and avoid high texture detail as it slows down massively when rendering any texture beyond 128x128 - even ONE

It should be perfectly fine for FF7PC though. 😁

and you should still worship the badly scaled color adjustment apple

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 6 of 11, by Rhuwyn

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Love the build. Back when I worked for a system builder (back when you could actually make a living off building custom PCs) we built something very similar. Pretty sure back then Blade3D would have been about the best integrated graphics you could hope for. Except for maybe that one packard bell system with onboard voodoo3.

I remember back in the day when DSL first arrived on the scene and my buddy for it but my parents wouldn't. I built a PC which I left at my buddy's house so we could both play on his DSL with internet connection sharing. It was a K6-2 350 with either a Trident or S3 I forget which and an Matrox m3D. Back then you needed some special WinPeot dialup software and routers that supported DSL authentication protocols were still expensive 3 or 4 hundred bucks for even just the home model so internet connetion sharing was really the only option for home users who didn't want to pay for the network gear.

Ahh the memories.

Reply 7 of 11, by matze79

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The Blade 3D does Lithtech Engine well.
I also had this PLE IGP.
But with a VIA 800Mhz CPU with the only 1/2 Mhz C3 FPU that equals almost a 400Mhz FPU from a K6-2.

It is not so bad at all. And very combatible.

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 9 of 11, by Private_Ops

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Reminds me of my first computer considered mine. (Mom gave it to me when she upgraded (I wanna say round 2003?))

Was an old HP

Celeron 1.1GHz
128MB RAM
40GB HD
Onboard Intel graphics courtesy of the i810 chipset

Later upgraded with 512MB of RAM and a PCI Geforce 2 MX400.

Reply 10 of 11, by Living

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thats the very best example for budget in those years and a perfect capable computer to play age 2, fifa 2000, need for speed 2 and Starcraft

Reply 11 of 11, by matze79

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I run the Compaq IPAQ Desktop PC - Legacy Free with Legacy Adapter.

It also has a i810 but with integrated 4Mb Videocache RAM.
It runs Quake 3 😉

Featuring Coppermine 1Ghz P3, and 512Mb RAM (Chipset limit 🙁, i really would like 1Gb)
Its my Programming Station for EROM/EEPROM/Flash and MCU's.

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https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board