VOGONS


First post, by AppleDash

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Alright, so I built a new socket 7 system recently, with the following specs:

Flip-top XT case with standard AT power supply
HOT-591P motherboard
Pentium 133
64MB of EDO
3.5 1.44 and 5.25 1.2 floppy drives
20GB WD HDD
CDROM drive
Some Trident PCI card + Voodoo1
SB AWE64
Some random LAN card of a brand I forget

The system detects the P133 just fine, tests the 64MB of RAM, and boots up 100% fine... usually.

I had the system originally running Windows 98 SE on top of an MS-DOS 6.22 install. One day it just started loading Windows and then immediately resetting the system while still at the Windows logo. Over and over again. Once it got to the F8 screen automatically and told me to boot into DOS-only mode and run scanreg, so I did. Scanreg started loading, and then the system just reset on its own. After a few full resets (power switch off and then back on) it would sometimes fully load into Windows, but it was unreliable. I decided to just reinstall everything, so I formatted the disk and then installed DOS 6.22 again. I've got QEMM, a CD-ROM driver, and the AWE64 drivers installed, along with Windows 3.1. DOOM is on there too. After the initial install, it worked just fine, beautifully in fact. But the next day when I woke up and went to turn on the PC, I found that Windows wouldn't start, and that system.ini had become corrupt. I restored it from a backup that the AWE64 installer had luckily made, and all was fine again. A few reboots later it was still running flawlessly. The next day... Exact same problem. System.ini was corrupt again. This time I had a few more strange problems, like DOS hanging on boot sometimes and `edit` executing an illegal instruction (which was caught by QEMM.) I eventually got Windows running again just fine. I haven't booted from the HDD since then and I'm honestly afraid to.

The system passes memtest86+, a CPU stress test that finds prime numbers, and a disk surface scan. F-Prot virus scanner under DOS finds nothing in the boot sector or the filesystem. What on earth could the problem, and how can I fix it? I'm at my wit's end.

Last edited by AppleDash on 2017-03-18, 05:34. Edited 1 time in total.

Main retro system: Am486 DX4 100MHz | 128K cache | 16MB RAM | VLB Mach32 | Sound Blaster 16 | HardMPU w/ MT-32 or SC-55 | MS-DOS 6.22; no Windows

Reply 1 of 12, by Ampera

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Try both a new hard drive and hard drive controller. One might be causing file corruption.

Reply 2 of 12, by AppleDash

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The controller is onboard, unfortunately, and there's no way to disable it so I can't use an I/O card.

Main retro system: Am486 DX4 100MHz | 128K cache | 16MB RAM | VLB Mach32 | Sound Blaster 16 | HardMPU w/ MT-32 or SC-55 | MS-DOS 6.22; no Windows

Reply 3 of 12, by AppleDash

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I just booted it up now out of morbid curiosity... Something either in config.sys or autoexec.bat executes an illegal instruction on boot, and forces the system to reboot. I don't understand why it's corrupting itself, but only overnight - I can reboot it 50 times in the day and it'll be fine, but leave it off for 12 hours or so overnight and it seems to be guaranteed corruption on startup. Could it have something to do with a bad CMOS battery?

Main retro system: Am486 DX4 100MHz | 128K cache | 16MB RAM | VLB Mach32 | Sound Blaster 16 | HardMPU w/ MT-32 or SC-55 | MS-DOS 6.22; no Windows

Reply 4 of 12, by Ampera

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The CMOS battery only runs the RTC and sometimes keeps BIOS info in volatile memory. It should not be affecting the drives.

Try to run the system for a few days and see if it corrupts itself.

Reply 5 of 12, by AppleDash

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Ampera wrote:

The CMOS battery only runs the RTC and sometimes keeps BIOS info in volatile memory. It should not be affecting the drives.

Try to run the system for a few days and see if it corrupts itself.

I can't do that at this point - one of the binaries being loaded on startup is corrupt, so it's just about safe to say that the system is completely broken again... Should I reinstall DOS and then try?

Main retro system: Am486 DX4 100MHz | 128K cache | 16MB RAM | VLB Mach32 | Sound Blaster 16 | HardMPU w/ MT-32 or SC-55 | MS-DOS 6.22; no Windows

Reply 6 of 12, by Jo22

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To be honest, I've got no idea what's going on.
Perhaps it is related to a cold soldering joint or a bad condenser, as both are affected by temperature.
That would at least be an explanation for a system running fine after warm up..

Tip: If you can't find the error, try an older ISA-IDE card instead of the on-board controller (disable that).
A sound card with jumpers and an IDE port can also be used; S7 systems are usually modern enough to boot from secondary master.
If this still doesn't work, run windows via win /b. This should create a bootlog file in Windows directory.

Edit: Also try to manually set PIO modes in BIOS. Can't verify this right now, but I once heard of PIO 4 beeing buggy.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 8 of 12, by GPA

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It can be caused by a lot of things, most likely a failing HDD, but i have recently been fighting with a motherboard that worked just fine until it booted into Windows with graphics mode other that 640x480 x 16 colours. It would constantly reboot when set to a different mode, no matter what VGA card i would put in there (tried S3 Savage 4, ATi Rage 128, rivaTNT, riva128, all PCI as it was a 486 PCI board). In the end i have decided to replace all electrolytic capacitors on the board. Was a pain but it looks like i was thinking right: Board is booting ok into high res mode, but hangs a minute after. The capacitors i had at hand were not too good, so i will have to redo this job again, but it did help, it seems.
So might be caps.

P.S. all caps looked just fine before replacing.

Reply 9 of 12, by jade_angel

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Best guesses in order of probability:

1) Dying disk
2) Dying disk controller. (Try a SCSI card + SCSI disk, if you can't disable the onboard IDE. Also, some PCI IDE controllers work anyway, even with the onboard still active)
3) Witchety IDE cable
4) Bad caps
5) PSU delivering unstable power

Those last two have odd symptoms, and should be suspected if you have other bizarre behavior - for example, can install Win98 today, but tomorrow the install dies, then randomly starts working again.

Main Box: Macbook Pro M2 Max
Alas, I'm down to emulation.

Reply 10 of 12, by cj_reha

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Definitely get some sort of PCI IDE controller. They should work great in tandem with the on board I/O.

For example, my Windows 98 box (the full house) has a Promise Ultra66 PCI IDE controller for the hard drives, and I use the motherboards on board io for optical drives.

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Reply 11 of 12, by AppleDash

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I'll try giving an external controller in combination with a new disk a go. But first, I'm going to replace the CPU, because I just got another that is not only faster but also known-good as opposed to the current one that came from the bottom of a random drawer at my roommate's parents' house 😜

Main retro system: Am486 DX4 100MHz | 128K cache | 16MB RAM | VLB Mach32 | Sound Blaster 16 | HardMPU w/ MT-32 or SC-55 | MS-DOS 6.22; no Windows

Reply 12 of 12, by AppleDash

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I tried my first plan last night and eventually decided to replace the CPU with a WinChip C6 until I can get a new Pentium 133. It seems to be working just fine, and I performed a fresh installation of DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1 and left it overnight. It seems to still be working this morning with no corruption - I'll update this thread if something happens or if it goes a while without anything happening.

Main retro system: Am486 DX4 100MHz | 128K cache | 16MB RAM | VLB Mach32 | Sound Blaster 16 | HardMPU w/ MT-32 or SC-55 | MS-DOS 6.22; no Windows