candle_86 wrote:

7950GT or x1950 Pro AGP is what I'd be looking for.

those are Pentium 4 cards.

I once played crysis on my dual pentium 3 setup , at the time it used a radeon x1600 , which is kinda like a geforce 7600 for comparison. seemed to work pretty good.

agent_x007 wrote:

Everything over 7800 GS and X1950 Pro/HD 2600 XT "D3", is a waste of money (because framerate in most cases will be too low even […]
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Everything over 7800 GS and X1950 Pro/HD 2600 XT "D3", is a waste of money (because framerate in most cases will be too low even before utilising 100% of the GPU - CPU Bottleneck).

Hi 😀
Bolded part : Your CPU/RAM sucks.
Not GPU's fault it can't run Crysis smoothly.]

Don't insult my CPU's and RAM please 🤣
Regarding the HD4670 AGP vs HD3850 on your VSTA board, the performance difference is a but surprising (even when discarding the slight 3850 OC) as they should perform within reach of each other.
My point is that the HD3850 is very tough on the 12V which is not a strong-point of older PSU's that are more focused on 3.3/5v. The HD4670 is a much more friendly card.

Crysis running on my Dualatin, not at 60 Frames per second but definitely faster than Quake on a Voodoo with Cyrix 6x86MX back in the days.

Crysis Dual P3-S HD4670 AGP Low settings Full HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD1mSaGsgg8&t=153s

PIII-S scaling; single vs Dual CPU.
Bioshock Single CPU HD4670 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s4h0EzpCnA (Single PIII-S@1.66Ghz, 1GB RAM)
Bioshock Dual CPU HD4670 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BRu7d3ohcg (Dual PIII-S@1.4Ghz, 4GB RAM)

I seriously doubt that a X1950 AGP can come close, let alone a 7800GS+, to this performance.
Is it retro? Questionable but it put the CPU's to good use and proves that a properly configured Dual Tualatin board performs pretty well for what it is.

4670 vs. 3850 :
Depends on CPU, I tested on Core 2 Extreme QX9770 (OC'ed 😁), Pentium Dual-Core (@4GHz 😉) and Pentium 4 EE 3,2GHz (OC'ed).
Thing is, only on Pentium 4 they were about the same :

I think going old PSU's may not be the best way in the future (at least without cap replacement), you know... we have 2017 already 😉
I agree, 7800/7900/x1950 AGP are no match for 3850/4670, IF you have good enough CPU.
Also there are A LOT of 4670's AGP - some can use a lot slower memory than 1600MHz I have.

A radeon 9700 pro or a 9800 is you're best bet any higher of a video card results in lower frames

All Benchmarks @ 1024x768 32:
with Radeon 9550xl 256MB: 3DMark2000 6469, 3DMark2001 5801, 3DMark2003 2103
with Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB: 3DMark2000 6683, 3DMark2001 7305, 3DMark2003 4407
With Radeon HD 3850 512MB: 3DMark2000 7202, 3DMark2001 8764, 3DMark2003 Would not run
With Geforce 6800 GT 256MB: 3DMark2000 7334, 3DMark2001 7455, 3DMark2003 6811
With all video cards unreal gold ran at an average of 52 frames @ 1280x1024 32
You can check ou the build here: Maxing out an Asus P3V4X

Any card that was higher then the 9700 made no difference in unreal same frames with the 9550 frames would drop slightly under heavy fire, it was rare though. with the ti4200 I had to drop the resolution down to 1024x768 to sustain 52 frames again.

9550 and up to 9800 are you're best bet they are cheap cards and you get DX9 plus passive cooing with the 9550XL.

Careful some of the 9000 series cards are 64bit and you want the 128bit.

luckybob wrote:

candle_86 wrote:

7950GT or x1950 Pro AGP is what I'd be looking for.

those are Pentium 4 cards.

I'd wager a Dual 1.4S could compete very well with a P4 @ 3ghz though 🤣

candle_86 wrote:

luckybob wrote:

candle_86 wrote:

7950GT or x1950 Pro AGP is what I'd be looking for.

those are Pentium 4 cards.

I'd wager a Dual 1.4S could compete very well with a P4 @ 3ghz though 🤣

indeed. But only under apps that support SMP. that's the big problem here, finding something that works well with just the one cpu and the two.

I made an offer on a 9800 pro, something tells me a 9800 would be the best card for such a setup. I'll try to find a 256mb version sometime, I play at 1600x1200 and 265mb might be useful with newer games and apps. I'll try to get a 6800 and 5950 too.

Jade Falcon wrote:

candle_86 wrote:

indeed. But only under apps that support SMP. that's the big problem here, finding something that works well with just the one cpu and the two.

I made an offer on a 9800 pro, something tells me a 9800 would be the best card for such a setup. I'll try to find a 256mb version sometime, I play at 1600x1200 and 265mb might be useful with newer games and apps. I'll try to get a 6800 and 5950 too.

And I tell you something based on my, recent, experience.
SMP works extremely well on a Dual PIII and a 9700/9800 is simply not fast enough, not on those resolutions.
For proof, check my youtube channel, I have uploaded quit a lot of gaming material for both Single P3-S a Dual P3-S

My set, which I consider very close to be the perfect dual Tualatin setup.
Supermicro P3TDDE
Dual P3-S Tualatin 1400MHz
4GB RAM (4 * 1GB PC133 ECC)
HIS HD4670 1GB GDDR3 AGP
Crucial M500 120GB SSD with PATA Converter
ASUS Sonar DS PCI
WIN XP SP3 (win7 works but a lot slower)
Steam (When it was still working, looks like SSE2 is now required))

Good luck 😎

Offordef wrote:

And I tell you something based on my, recent, experience. SMP works extremely well on a Dual PIII and a 9700/9800 is simply not […]
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Jade Falcon wrote:

candle_86 wrote:

indeed. But only under apps that support SMP. that's the big problem here, finding something that works well with just the one cpu and the two.

I made an offer on a 9800 pro, something tells me a 9800 would be the best card for such a setup. I'll try to find a 256mb version sometime, I play at 1600x1200 and 265mb might be useful with newer games and apps. I'll try to get a 6800 and 5950 too.

And I tell you something based on my, recent, experience.
SMP works extremely well on a Dual PIII and a 9700/9800 is simply not fast enough, not on those resolutions.
For proof, check my youtube channel, I have uploaded quit a lot of gaming material for both Single P3-S a Dual P3-S

My set, which I consider very close to be the perfect dual Tualatin setup.
Supermicro P3TDDE
Dual P3-S Tualatin 1400MHz
4GB RAM (4 * 1GB PC133 ECC)
HIS HD4670 1GB GDDR3 AGP
Crucial M500 120GB SSD with PATA Converter
ASUS Sonar DS PCI
WIN XP SP3 (win7 works but a lot slower)
Steam (When it was still working, looks like SSE2 is now required))

Good luck 😎

Mindblowing...! I watched the above video's and didn't look too well at specs and thought Bioshock ran pretty nice on a dual p3, too bad it only has 1gb...
Then i saw it was only one cpu!!
Amazing how fast it runs on 2 p3 cpu's and the 4gb made a huge difference i think.

Jade Falcon wrote:

What would you say is the most Ideal a video card for dual 1.4ghz Piii-s? system? […]
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What would you say is the most Ideal a video card for dual 1.4ghz Piii-s? system?

I bought a x850xt for a dual 1.4ghz system. I know it's going to be overkill. But whatever.

...

Your thoughts?

I tried my X800XT on my tualatin rig for poops and giggles and I got loads of stability issues. First I thought it was the PSU, and replaced it with a modern 80+ corsair VS650, but the problems didn't go away. To be clear, the problems are severe stuttering in some games, freezing and hanging in others. I've finally narrowed it down to being an AGP version incompatibility issue - see my X800XT is keyed to 8x only. It will run at 4x, as the PC posts and the drivers install fine. Some games even work well - but others exhibit the problems described above. The machine runs on a Abit ST6 intel i815 board witch works great with period correct cards and some newer ones as well.

I think the card doesn't like the 1.5v it's getting from the AGP bus while in 4x mode, although the card should fully support AGP 4x - either that or there's some incompatibility issue between the i815 and agp 8x/4x only cards, since I got the exact same problems with other 8x/4x cards - a Geforce 6800 from MSI keyed to 8x, and an 9600XT from asus. The 6800 starts to act up as soon as you install the driver, distorting characters under the cursor in drop down menu boxes and such.... I'd say stick to AGP 4x/2x cards for your tualatin machine to avoid headaches.

Games that work fine:
- Dungeon Keeper 2
- Quake 2
- Half Life
- Sin
- Kingpin

Games that freeze:
- Homeworld
- Quake 3
- Black and White
- Serious Sam
- Unreal Gold
- Unreal Tournament
- Expandible
- NFS Porsche

Hmmm....do not agree, sorry. Probably depends on the board, maybe even revision, bios version etc.

I use a Tusl2-c and one time used it as a benchmarking board to test every single agp graphics card i had that would work on it. The only ones that gave me problems were the voodoo1, voodoo banshee and voodoo rush (only the banshee was agp ofcourse) . I don't know why, did multiple fsb settings, drivers, cards etc.

But that doesn't matter right now, all cards from voodoo2 to voodoo5 and tnt1 to 6800ultra worked fine and finished every benchmark without problems (3dmark and 2 games per card).
So please, don't start telling people not to use certain hardware just because it didn't work out for you. It doesn't make it a common problem.

I tell people my experience with some voodoo's on that particular board with a fast p3 but i also tell them that lots of folks did get these cards working on fast p3 systems.

@kanecvr
Have you tried disabling Fast-Write and/or Side Band Adressing (SBA) ?

Well of course I have to throw my hat in the ring with Voodoo 5 just because I'm a huge 3DFX fanatic.

agent_x007 wrote:

@kanecvr
Have you tried disabling Fast-Write and/or Side Band Adressing (SBA) ?

This.
Some abit boards have problems with latter agp cards and tualatins. if you system is anything like some of the abit boards I had try what agent said.
The vp6 can have problems with the clock generator with tualatin that messes with the agp port too.

keenmaster486 wrote:

Well of course I have to throw my hat in the ring with Voodoo 5 just because I'm a huge 3DFX fanatic.

Another one for the 5500. Nice card. But it not the best on the new side of things.

Hello. I've tried a VisionTek Radeon HD 2600 Pro on a single CPU 1.4 GHz Tualatin board and works great. The graphics card is slightly bottlenecked on that system, but is good and stable under Windows XP. Now I've got the card installed on a Northwood board but I think it might be a good choice for upgrading your setup on XP; older OS are not supported for the ATI HD 2000 Series though. 😀

For my single Tualatin build I'm going for a Radeon 8500 but I don't plan to play anything beyond 2003 on it. If I were doing a dual Tualatin build like you are, I would definitely pair it with my 9800PRO though.

7600 gs is the best after taking into account the rarity and price of the faster cards. (The best AGP cards are usually stupidly expensive.)

I remember that's what I used to use (before upgrading to the 4670) with my dual overclocked Tualatin before I got bored with and gave it away.
I was able to run Skyrim, Crysis, fallout New Vegas, and Bioshock 2 mostly playably under Windows 7. But I had a board that supported 4 gigs of Ram.
(The 4670 is only marginally faster)

6200's are really cheap. The 512MB full height variant is pretty good.
(I think the low profile version is only 64 bit, while the full height version is 128 bit. Could be wrong though.)
7950GT's are very rare, but would be the best Nvidia card.

The 1 gig HD4670, or 3850 are basically identical in performance and they are the best cards on the AMD side, but rare and expensive.

Another option is pci to pcie conversion, which is kinda stupid and silly, but you would be able to install something like a GTX 260 which I consider to be one of the best price per performance cards that exists today. You can pick these things up for like 10 bucks, and they still handle modern games pretty well. (It'll be super bottlenecked by the slow pci bus, and the translation from PCIe packets to a PCI signal, but it used to work for me on my dual Tualatin.)