VOGONS


First post, by Saotome Ranma

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Finally, I got the delivery of Roland SC-D70 (not the keyboard one) today. it is said that SC-55/88/88pro/8820 maps are supported according to manual officially, but as everyone knows... There isn't such kind of map-switching button available on its front panel....

So, could some nice guy tell me how to change the maps on D70 for retro games, or if any kind of software is a "must-have" for the configuration, recommend me some highly evaluated ones for both win 98/xp please? 😀 😀

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Reply 1 of 42, by FuzzyLogic

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The manual (http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SC-D70_OM.pdf) explains how to change instruments and maps using software like Cakewalk. If you want to use sysex, then it gets more complicated.

The software that comes with the D70 (GS Advanced Editor) should be useful for what you want to do. You can save your settings on GSAE and load them up before playing a game.

It is possible that a game will do a GM or GS reset and your map selection with be for naught.

Reply 2 of 42, by Saotome Ranma

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FuzzyLogic wrote:

The manual (http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SC-D70_OM.pdf) explains how to change instruments and maps using software like Cakewalk. If you want to use sysex, then it gets more complicated.

The software that comes with the D70 (GS Advanced Editor) should be useful for what you want to do. You can save your settings on GSAE and load them up before playing a game.

It is possible that a game will do a GM or GS reset and your map selection with be for naught.

First of all, thank u very much for the reply.

Actually, I am a newbie on this point because I've never used such kind of USB midi device before. So could u please give me some more details about the software u mentioned (or other software u highly recommended for win98/XP), and the procedures of changing sound maps?

I know this could be annoying, but I really don't have any idea of using SC-D70 correctly.... 😢 😢 😢

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Reply 3 of 42, by FuzzyLogic

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I found my driver/demo/software disc. Maybe I should make an ISO or bin/cue for vogonsdrivers.

I assume you already have the driver installed. GSAE is attached. Have fun.

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    gsae.zip
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    1.6 MiB
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    150 downloads
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    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 4 of 42, by Saotome Ranma

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FuzzyLogic wrote:

I found my driver/demo/software disc. Maybe I should make an ISO or bin/cue for vogonsdrivers.

I assume you already have the driver installed. GSAE is attached. Have fun.

Thank u very much!!! I will try the thing u uploaded. Don't worry about the drivers, I've downloaded them already from official website of roland, and installed them on my Pentium M win98/xp gaming rig correctly.

And plz mention me first as long as u upload the SC-D70 ISO. 😀 😀 😀

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Reply 6 of 42, by keropi

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For gaming reasons I believe SC-8820 and SC-8850 are the "top" models to own - both have the "INST MAP" button.
I can only speak about the SC-8820 , if the user chooses a map with the button that map will remain active and no gs/gm sysex reset will change it to something else.

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Reply 7 of 42, by FuzzyLogic

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I want to make it clear that I do not know if a GM/GS reset will change the map selection on the SC-D70. It's only my hunch and I could be wrong. But I doubt many (if any) games even do a reset. They probably just send an all-notes-off when they start up.

Reply 8 of 42, by Falcosoft

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E.g. Doom sends GM ON/GM OFF messages but indeed it's rather the exception not the rule.
Incidentally I have just added the ability to FSMP of sending Bank LSB messages by hotkeys. According to the above referred documentation SC-D70 map changing works by setting the proper Bank LSB value (the same way SC-VA works in SC-8820 mode).
1. Download the new test version of FSMP:
http://falcosoft.hu/midiplayer_48_test.zip
2. Temporarily enable Bass output mode to reach the new checkbox control called 'Use Bank LSB' and select it.(it is really intended for soundfont testing...)
3. Disable bass output mode and select the midi out port where your SC-D70 is connected to.
4. While playing a song or when you use DosBox through midi in you can press the following hotkeys to select the different maps:
Ctrl + 0 -> Default map
Ctrl + 1 -> SC-55 Map
Ctrl + 2 -> SC-88 Map
Ctrl + 3 -> SC-88 Pro Map
Ctrl + 4 -> SC-8820 Map

Edit:
I have made a video about it (using SC-VA):
https://youtu.be/_SkkX2puXD4

Last edited by Falcosoft on 2017-06-16, 14:53. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 9 of 42, by Saotome Ranma

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Falcosoft wrote:
E.g. Doom sends GM ON/GM OFF messages but indeed it's rather the exception not the rule. Incidentally I have just added the abil […]
Show full quote

E.g. Doom sends GM ON/GM OFF messages but indeed it's rather the exception not the rule.
Incidentally I have just added the ability to FSMP of sending Bank LSB messages by hotkeys. According to the above referred documentation SC-D70 map changing works by setting the proper Bank LSB value (the same way SC-VA works in SC-8820 mode).
1. Download the new test version of FSMP:
http://falcosoft.hu/midiplayer_48_test.zip
2. Temporarily enable Bass output mode to reach the new checkbox control called 'Use Bank LSB' and select it.(it is really intended for soundfont testing...)
3. Disable bass output mode and select the midi out port where your SC-D70 is connected to.
4. While playing a song or when you use DosBox through midi in you can press the following hotkeys to select the different maps:
Ctrl + 0 -> Default map
Ctrl + 1 -> SC-55 Map
Ctrl + 2 -> SC-88 Map
Ctrl + 3 -> SC-88 Pro Map
Ctrl + 4 -> SC-8820 Map

Wow!!! Thanks for the god!

U r the savior!!! Highly appreciate for ur valuable information and what u've done!!

The NOOB of noobs!!

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Reply 10 of 42, by Saotome Ranma

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James-F wrote:

Ranma, I'm sorry to tell you but the SC-D70 was a very bad choice, especially for gaming.
Sell it and buy a proper sound canvas unit.

I mainly choose sc-d70 for its optical output and its better resolution(44.1/48khz > 32khz), but seems I've made a wrong decision as a retro gamer.... T_T sigh.....

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Reply 11 of 42, by fitzpatr

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Saotome Ranma wrote:
James-F wrote:

Ranma, I'm sorry to tell you but the SC-D70 was a very bad choice, especially for gaming.
Sell it and buy a proper sound canvas unit.

I mainly choose sc-d70 for its optical output and its better resolution(44.1/48khz > 32khz), but seems I've made a wrong decision as a retro gamer.... T_T sigh.....

I don't think that it is quite as dire as James-F makes it seem. The SC-D70 has a number of advantages over other entrants in the Sound Canvas line. You mentioned the optical output and the different audio sample rates. I wanted it because of the map options, especially because I find the SC-55 to have very poor guitar samples which seem vastly improved in later models. The only real negatives are the difficulty in changing maps, which I'll be working on soon, and the less exciting display. I did not have enough time before I moved to create the MIDI map select files, and now my things are still in storage.

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Reply 12 of 42, by Saotome Ranma

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fitzpatr wrote:
Saotome Ranma wrote:
James-F wrote:

Ranma, I'm sorry to tell you but the SC-D70 was a very bad choice, especially for gaming.
Sell it and buy a proper sound canvas unit.

I mainly choose sc-d70 for its optical output and its better resolution(44.1/48khz > 32khz), but seems I've made a wrong decision as a retro gamer.... T_T sigh.....

I don't think that it is quite as dire as James-F makes it seem. The SC-D70 has a number of advantages over other entrants in the Sound Canvas line. You mentioned the optical output and the different audio sample rates. I wanted it because of the map options, especially because I find the SC-55 to have very poor guitar samples which seem vastly improved in later models. The only real negatives are the difficulty in changing maps, which I'll be working on soon, and the less exciting display. I did not have enough time before I moved to create the MIDI map select files, and now my things are still in storage.

WOW, thx for ur reply bro, waiting for the good news 😀 😀 😀

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Reply 13 of 42, by James-F

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Maybe there is a ready soldering point on the front panel PCB for the MAP button that was never used?
That would require disassembling the unit to check.

I refuse to believe Roland made a mistake of such importance.


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Reply 14 of 42, by 2Mourty

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I picked up a sc-d70 on a trip to Tokyo. Using the XG/GS Utilities mentioned in this thread

Roland SC-88 versus SC-88 Pro?

I was able to get the sound maps to change with the provided syx files. I've been comparing quest for glory 4 music between the sc-55 soundmap and the sc-8820 sound map and for the most part I prefer the sc-8820 sounds. I have a coax cable coming tomorrow and then will try the digital output and see what is sounds like. (I am psyched about the digital output option!!!!!) 😀

I was thinking about posting some samples if anybody was interested in hearing the differences. Would anybody?

I'll be moving on to Deathgate next to hear the soundmap differences.

Reply 15 of 42, by yawetaG

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James-F wrote:

Maybe there is a ready soldering point on the front panel PCB for the MAP button that was never used?
That would require disassembling the unit to check.

I refuse to believe Roland made a mistake of such importance.

Even back in the day various modules by various manufacturers could only be used/edited with utilities or in some cases special hardware editors (e.g. this thing, which I bought because it will make my life with that manufacturer's synths a lot easier). It's not a mistake by the manufacturers, it's an issue of "do your research before you buy". Which, with all the manuals that can be found online nowadays, is pretty easy.

Software includes:
- device- or manufacturer-specific editors
- Soundiver (manufacturer doesn't exist anymore, software apparently very good)
- MIDI Quest (bloody expensive, homepage)
- SysExLibrarian (Mac only, https://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/)
- ...probably others, I don't have a complete list

Reply 16 of 42, by 2Mourty

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Here are the 1st set of recordings. These are recorded from the digital output of the SC-D70 24bit 48000khz recordings; unfortunately in mp3 format due to size restrictions. =)

This is a theme from Deathgate on the world of Pryan. One is the SC-55 soundmap, the other the sc-8820 soundmap.

Curious to see what any of you think about the differences in sound. I'll do a recording from quest for glory 4 tonight or tomorrow morning.

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  • Filename
    Deathgate Pryan 8820.mp3
    File size
    4.66 MiB
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    25 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    Deathgate Pryan sc55.mp3
    File size
    4.66 MiB
    Downloads
    26 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 17 of 42, by 2Mourty

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Sorry I was not able to post recordings today, I will do so tomorrow later in the evening. I am a choir teacher and had to prepare for a day long summer choir workshop I'm in charge of tomorrow. I will however post some QFG4 music and GK1 music tomorrow night. Still interested to see what people thought of the differences in the Deathgate music.

Reply 18 of 42, by 2Mourty

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Here are recordings from QFG4. Erana's Staff and Dr. Cranium (Hallway). Again interested to see if you here a big difference between the soundsets, or none at all. If you do hear a difference which soundset do you like more and why?

I just updated the Erana's Staff Files with much cleaner fadeouts. Go figure; it's easier to make clean sounding files in Cubase than Audacity =)

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Reply 19 of 42, by Spikey

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I definitely prefer the 8820 sounds, they are much more advanced than the 55 in almost every case. Even though QFG4 was composed on a SC-55, it doesn't sound that great using the SC-55 instruments. Even a lot of MT-32 patches are superior despite not being the intended playback device!

A lot of the instruments commonly used In QFG4 are strengths of the 8820/50/D70 also, like nylon guitar, clarinet, strings, harp, drums, basses etc. And the synth sounds are often taken from the 55 so you don't get compatibility mismatches on the weirder patches (eg Halo Pad in Dr Cranium's Hallway).