I have two dogs. I'm good where I'm at.

Fair enough! Dogs are cool too and (slightly) less work.

Totally forgot I started this thread! ... thanks to everyone who has contributed with messages, the support from everywhere has been overwhelming... even from people I do not know nor have ever met. Though I'll be leaving the writing of thank you cards to the Mrs... she has better hand writing 🤣

All I can say is that her first two months have been quite an experience for us so far, still not sleeping entirely through the night but we are getting better. As I work from home mostly, trying to find a balance between work and family has been the hardest part... though we are getting there.

While I am seeing some older babies roll around with an ipad etc I've taken it upon myself to go ahead and acquire her first 386, it's a 20MHz SX Compaq SLT... whilst her friends are all on iOS and Windows 10, she will be keeping it real on Dos/3.11.

Nice! Hopefully she builds a bit of an appreciation for the old stuff first before she's exposed to the modern things.

My nephew lost his interest in most of the DOS stuff once he found out about borderlands 😢

luckybob wrote:

I'm always baffled by other people's need to show off their crotch goblins.

"crotch goblin" 🤣 That's a new one.

No matter how much time, effort, sweat, and blood (slicing the odd finger off an AT case!)... I put into computer systems, which I can on occasion show off here on Vogons.... none of them give the same feeling as to when you build and maintain a tiny person who looks just like you and has all of the same components... well, almost!

Have you ever played tamagotchi while jet-lagged?... well, it's more rewarding than that. 😁

Edit:-

luckybob wrote:

I have two dogs. I'm good where I'm at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH64dlgyydM

One of my favourite movies!

BeginnerGuy wrote:

When she turns 20 this stuff will be half a century old. Maybe she'll take some 8088 appreciation class in her ultra futuristic college curriculum about dinosaur hardware used by primitive cave men born in the 20th century 😎

I didn't think of it like that... but you're right, If I can get her to 20 with an interest still in computers... I'll know I have done something right. I suppose she'll need to be as currently, she is the sole inheritor of one of the biggest hoards of 386 hardware anyone has ever seen! 🤣

BeginnerGuy wrote:

Nice! Hopefully she builds a bit of an appreciation for the old stuff first before she's exposed to the modern things.
My nephew lost his interest in most of the DOS stuff once he found out about borderlands 😢

Yea, compared to the likes of Wolfenstein/ Doom... it put's the advancement in technology and games into perspective. Hopefully by then, there will be a greater appreciation for older hardware/software.

Late to the party! My sincerest congrats!!

386_junkie wrote:

It will be a fine day when she receives her first 386!

Man I think there is something very special about raising a kid today, and letting them play their first games on a retro DOS computer like Keen, Duke, Cosmo, Monster Bash, etc, etc, etc.

I love the idea of my kid learning how to "cd games; cd keen; keen.exe" before they even know how to use a mouse or have even heard of Windows 95.

My dad raised me on DOS in the era of Windows XP and I never looked back.

Hey congratulation!

Congratulations from a fellow father. Yeah... It's going to be a wild ride, bringing her up. I have a daughter who just turned 9 and a son that will turn 7 next month.

Children are so rewarding.

brostenen wrote:

Congratulations from a fellow father. Yeah... It's going to be a wild ride, bringing her up. I have a daughter who just turned 9 and a son that will turn 7 next month.

Children are so rewarding.

Once your catch up on sleep...

gdjacobs wrote:

brostenen wrote:

Congratulations from a fellow father. Yeah... It's going to be a wild ride, bringing her up. I have a daughter who just turned 9 and a son that will turn 7 next month.

Children are so rewarding.

Once your catch up on sleep...

True... I studiet web programmer, when my daughter was small. And the daily routine was something like this.

5:00am Waking up, making coffee and lunch boxes.
5:20am Waking up children, getting them dressed.
6:00am Out the door.
6:20am Dropping off my daughter at the daycare.
6:45am Taking the first train.
7:04am Changing train. Doing homework in the train
7:45am Arrival by train, changing to bus.
8:00am Arrival at school, 10 minutes time for breakfast.
8:15am Starting schoolday.
1:40pm Finishing up school.
1:45pm Taking the bus to the trainstation.
2:12pm Taking the train home.
2:55pm Arrival at hometown.
3:15pm Taking the bus home.
3:55pm Picking up my daughter at the daycare.
4:30pm Doing the grocery shopping.
5:00pm Getting home and packing out, washing clothes, and more.
5:30pm Cooking dinner.
6:00pm Eating dinner.
6:30pm Doing dishes, cleaning kitchen.
7:00pm Paying bills and so on.
7:30pm Starting to put children to bed (my daughter and stepdaughter).
1:00am Going to bed my self.

My daughter would not sleep untill some 10pm, and after that I had to do my homework.
School demanded that we used aprox the same amount of time for homework that we used on school on daily base.
Yeah.... I eventually became a web programmer with bachelor degree. Only sleeping 4 hours each night.
The cost was high, like really high. I became burned out and got retired before time. At the age of 39.

I still stand by my words, that having children is one of the most rewarding things in life.
Even though I had to pay that high cost, and basically became handicapped, and are now recieving a monthly retirement check.

Sorry if people feel that I have derailed it. Just wanted to make clear, that children are more worth than ones own health.
When we become parents, we will go through fire and water for them small ones, even at an extreme high cost.

I just noticed this post. I have 3 kids and I think I'll take this opportunity to dump my thoughts on the matter.

I don't know what any of you are talking about when you say it is rewarding. Are you trying to get more readers to have kids so they can be miserable too; as in a misery loves company type of philosophy? For me, having children has been awful, the worst type of suffering imaginable. You don't know it until you live it. To sum it up in a single word: slavery. There are slight spattering of minor joy here and there, but the hell of it drowns out the joy before it can blossom. I suspect the lot of you don't really know what it is like to take care of several children all day long. Do you have just one or two? Are your kids in childcare? Does your wife do the majority of the work (be honest)?. Do any of your kids have disabilities? There are so many variables to how one rates their quality of life with children. If you really want children, there are millions of orphans in the world who would be more than grateful to have a home.

For me, having children was probably a mistake. If I could take it back, I probably would. I had no idea how miserable my quality of life would be. For your sake, don't have children - there are so many things which can go wrong. 1 in 50 children born today have autism and there are countless other ailments which can afflict them, there's mental illness, drug addiction, ADD/ADHD, GDD, retardation, etc, and they only thing which can be tested for while pregnant seems to be down syndrome. The chances of raising a promising individual for the next generation isn't that great.

Before kids, I didn't have many arguments with the wife. After the first kid, not too many - but the disagreements, which were unheard of, really manifest after the 2nd and 3rd kid. For the record, the 3rd kid was unplanned and birth control failed us. The reason for having the 2nd is because it is not fair to the child to not have any siblings And my philosophy was to have the first two as quickly as possible and get the suffering over with. They are 18 mo. apart. Once they turn about 5, the kids are nagging at you constantly; they also get hurt all the time; they cry, fight, and scream all the time; after starting school, they get sick all the time. When my oldest started school, I had some new sickness once a month for the first 4 months. In the past, I'd get sick about once in 2 years. Your private life is over; your sex life is over; your quiet time is over and not much is fun anymore. Every event turns into what are you going to do for the kids. You end up only having friends which also have kids, that why when you hang out, the kids can occupy each other. Hanging out with friends who don't have kids just don't get your life and they tend to have limited patience and understanding for children.
Just going grocery shopping takes 3x as long with 3 kids compared to with zero. Trying to plan for a camping trip is like planning every last need for 5 people, but you are just 1 person. It is so exhausting that you end up never going camping anymore. Your kids will wonder off into the woods, no matter how much you tell them not to. The camping trip will consist of trying to not get your kids to wonder off. Who knows, maybe they will get kidnapped by a sasquatch. There are so many items of misery that you cannot possibly imagine until you have the little "crotch goblins", as luckybob puts it. I have aged twice as fast after having children. I have no energy go "go out" anymore. What are you going to do if you cannot get childcare? Where I live, the waitlist is in the years. What are you going to do if you cannot get after school care? Again, waitlist. Parents are so desperate that they are sending emails to other parents asking if they can pay for afterschool care. I just received an email this weekend to this effect. Let's assume you can get childcare after waiting 1+ year. I'm not sure what it costs where you are, but where I live, it is $1500 per month for 6 mo. and older and most childcare facilities don't take as young as 6 months. That was 6 years ago prices - I'm sure it is more now. After school care for primary school is about $800 per month for the time slot between 3 and 5 PM. It is a scam and they know parents have to pay it.

Contrary to the popular comments which surface, most newborn babies are ugly. They don't get cute until later on, like 6-12 months of age. Aside from the ridiculous cost for childcare and infinity wait lists, kids will use up all your money and destroy your house. When they don't get what they want, they scream and cry. My middle son likes to bang his head on concrete as hard as he can, which of course, makes him cry more. If you have multiple kids which are too close in age, like I do, they fight with each other and fight over toys constantly. They injure each other. They lie to you. The house is always a mess. At the end of the day, I am so tired, I can't even read them their bedtime story. I yawn every 10 seconds during bedtime story. Sometimes else I should mention is that kids get bored easily and so do babbies. Don't think your Netflix or DVD player will save you in this regard. From my experience, my kids can only last about 1 hour with television, then they get bored out of their mind and require that a parent entertains them, if not, they start hurting each other. What I never realised before having kids was that babbies also get bored as well. It will be obvious to you when they are bored because they they will not be hungry/thirsty, not be sick, not in pain, not pooped, and then just cry if you don't pick them up and entertain them. It gets old real fast. I was far happier when all I had was a wife, job and the cat. We could actually save money back then. I used to work 12-16 hour days as an engineer designing medical and hospital equipment, and other EE/ME-type devices. Those were long days which can really tax your mind and body but they pale in comparison to how tired and miserable you can be after a whole day of children.

The only means for me to play with my computer toys now is to loose sleep. Tonight, like many nights, my oldest couldn't sleep. I put her down at 9 PM, she made noise, whimpered, cried, and begged to come out of the room. She can come up with so many excuses. If I don't take her out, she makes endless noise in her room, wakes up her younger brother and disturbs the baby. Her noise didn't cease until around 11:30. If its not the daughter, some other kids is up in the middle of the night, due to a bad dream, is begging for water, says their legs hurt, etc.

These are just the issues when they are younger. It only gets worse as time goes on. University expenses, STD's, early pregnancy, personal injury, emotional disturbances, auto insurance, constantly worrying, etc.

Looks like tonight it is the 1 year old's turn to make noise in the middle of the night. He was having diarrhea all day, perhaps he's done it again...

feipoa wrote:

I just noticed this post. I have 3 kids and I think I'll take this opportunity to dump my thoughts on the matter.
---

THIS is why i dont have kids.

At 32 im single with 2 cats, been living in my own for the past 10+ years, working in what i like since 13 and im very happy.

In contrast my sister -30- got pregnant at the age of 17 and now she has 3 childrens (boy of 12 with some form of light-autism, girl of 9 and a boy of 3 that i cant stand). Because of this she never finished school and thus, only gets very basics jobs. She has what you call a miserable life, all revolves around her childrens, she has no social life, inoff income with her husband for the basics (they live in a house wich is in the process to sell - belonged to my great grandmother - and divide between the family not including her)

but you know what? i have no empathy for her situation, yes i can help sometimes, but that's it. Yet, sometimes, im the objective of her inferiority complex that is fueled by my "i can do what i want when i want" type of life...

feipoa wrote:

I just noticed this post. I have 3 kids and I think I'll take this opportunity to dump my thoughts on the matter.

(...)

Sounds like a tough time for you both. I have two kids, 3 and 1 years old. It sucks up 80% of my energy (and a lot of my time). I cannot even imagine anymore what is was like to have time for myself or just to simply 'do nothing'. It is harder to perform at work also. I can't say it was a mistake though, just even more life-changing than I had thought it would be.

Take care man, I hope things get better for you.

I was having second thoughts about having kids 3 years ago. I wouldn't say I was unhappy, but I wasn't enjoying work, and would look forward to my spare time to mess round with computers at home and not have to deal with anyone.
This caused arguments with the wife as she wanted to go out and do things and I just didn't have the desire/energy.

It wasn't planned but we had our first child in Oct 2016. This gave us a common goal, (his welfare) and we argue less and looking after him is so much more rewarding then doing a good job at work where the reward lasts until the next project, or a hobby where its just personal satisfaction. Restoring a PC is fun, making him laugh moreso.

I was never under any allusion that free time, money, personal life wouldn't disappear, its why I was having second thoughts.
Sure kids casue havoc, so do pets to a lesser degree, But you know that warm feeling you get from having a pet, multiply that by 1000, With the bigger lows come bigger high's

I suppose he has giving a true meaning to my life. If your happiest doing your own thing, then maybe parenthood isn't right for you, and that's cool, I have plenty of friends that have no desire to have a long term relationship, let alone parenthood as it will interfere with "Their" life.

but for a lot of people there really is no better joy or satisfaction then raising a little person, ask me again in roughly 16 years and I have changed my mind though 😜

@feipoa

My heart aches for you. I HATE children. As someone who is 'heterosexually challenged', having to worry about pregnancy was, let's just say, a non possibly. I am so thankful for that. Even still, I'm stuck with a 2 y/o right now. A cousin got knocked up by some random guy. She needed a place to stay for a few weeks to get an apartment. That was 2 years ago now.

The movie Idiocracy makes PERFECT sense to me now.

I am so happy to have never knocked up anyone. I have twp dogs, that's all I'll need.

feipoa : I feel how much you are suffering from. Don't worry (too much), time will heal.

You know, I don't typically respond in threads about kids, pregnancy, parenthood, etc. But, hey, it's VOGONS!

But seeing feipoa's misery outpour (which I can completely understand even though I don't feel the same), I thought to try to balance it out.

What experience (my own, of my friends, my parents, their friends, and family + reading thoughts of random people on the web) has taught me is that:

1. People are different
2. Children are different

People are different, and some of them should never have kids, ever. They will never enjoy them and only suffer. Most of the time the kids will suffer too. It's great when such people realize that ahead of time, and don't procreate. It's bad when social pressure, or unfortunate circumstances force them to have undesired kids.

Some people love kids and to them they are the true meaning of life. Women are more likely to be in this group than men, but it's by no means exclusive. These people really can devote their entire life to raising children and be enormously happy with it, assuming they have the fundamental means to provide for a decent living standard (doesn't have to be very high, just decent).

And most people are in between. They could go either way. They can be happy with kids or without them. If they have kids, they will have moments when they wish they didn't. If they go through life without ever having any, they might go through moments when they regret it. But most of the time they will be fine.

And if you are in the third group, where the majority is, a lot depends on circumstances. Here it is important to understand that children are also different. Some really are more manageable than others, and it's not entirely due to upbringing (although that has a lot to do with it). Some tend to run wild or cry for no reason, some are naturally well-behaved; some need constant outside entertainment, some know how to entertain themselves. There is also the luck of the draw in terms of physical and mental health; you can reduce the chances of problems by screenings and healthy lifestyle, but it merely improves your probability - you can never fully eliminate risks.

Economic and social factors are also very important. The situation described by feipoa - where childcare is both expensive and not easily obtainable seems very bad. In some countries it's better. For example, In Israel, private daycare is cheaper than feipoa describes, and public daycare is available starting from the age of 3, basically free (there is also after-school care which is not free, but still very affordable). You will also never get stuck without childcare, although you may not get the specific one you want. Russia, for instance, takes a different approach - you get 3 full years of maternity leave (part of it paid), and still get to keep your job; if you have a second kid while on maternity leave, you get the 3 years again + additional subsidies; some women can really stay a full decade on maternity leave and raise kids as a full-time job. In the US, childcare is not cheap, but seems to be available (I haven't heard of anyone who couldn't find a daycare/pre-school/kindergarten).

But it's obvious with so many variables (how you feel about children in general, how your spouse does, how healthy the kids turn out, how healthy you and your spouse are - that's also important, the childcare situation in your area, your financial situation, etc, etc) - there is not going to be a "one-size-fits-all" formula. The folks, like feipoa, who feel that everyone who advocates support for having children is simply miserable who wants everyone else to be miserable, are just as wrong as those who don't get why not everyone is as exhilarated about kids as they are.