VOGONS


Slot1 Build Issues

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First post, by Trank

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So this has become more than just an issue with a Viper 770. I dont believe its motherboard(ASUS-P2B-F 1.00) ill upload it for you guys to see. All of the traces, caps look great. And i was told it was working. I don't see any issues with the board. And the PSU is new. Now i believe it must be the CPU. I took it out and put it back in, did the same with the ram. Put a new CMOS battery in. Using a 3dfx Voodoo Rush PCI i know works(tested it today in my socket370).

My guess its the CPU itself. I did notice a bit of white coloring on one of the gold contacts, not sure if that's a bad sign. I found myself a cheap P3 Slot1 450, i just have to wait for it to get here. Also can i safely put a PC133 into a PC100 only motherboard? Thanks guys.

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Reply 1 of 25, by Ozzuneoj

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What exactly are the symptoms? I've noticed a lot of times I've had to reseat Slot 1 CPUs to get them to work right. I'd check the "teeth" inside the slot on the board to be sure they are all aligned properly (you'll see how they move when a CPU is inserted... just like ISA\PCI cards). I'd also clean the contacts on the CPU with a pencil eraser.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 2 of 25, by Trank

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Okay should i also double check jumper settings? Would that cause it to not boot, if incorrect? I was sure i set those right. Also there isnt really any symptoms. If i just turn it on, no beep, no video signal. Nothing.

Reply 4 of 25, by shamino

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What CPU have you been testing with so far?

Trank wrote:

Okay should i also double check jumper settings? Would that cause it to not boot, if incorrect? I was sure i set those right. Also there isnt really any symptoms. If i just turn it on, no beep, no video signal. Nothing.

Yes, there's plenty of potential for the jumpers to keep it from booting.
I'm looking at the photo you posted and comparing with the manual. It looks it's set to 75MHz FSB with a 6x multiplier and AGP running at 2/3 of FSB. If this is how the board is actually set right now then it's unusual.

The 75MHz FSB is probably overclocking the PCI bus, although not severely. PCI is used for southbridge communication among other things so it won't run if PCI isn't stable.
Try setting the FSB to 66MHz. Also make sure the multiplier is jumpered correctly. Most slot-1 CPUs are multiplier locked but if the setting doesn't match what it's locked to, maybe it can refuse to boot (I don't remember).
Keep everything very conservative until you can get it to POST.

Do you have a speaker connected? If you do, and it's never making any beeps, then it suggests the CPU isn't running. As Ozzuneoj mentioned, the slot-1 interface can be kind of temperamental so it might need to be reseated/etc.

It's been a long time since I ran one of these boards but I think it will beep if it doesn't detect RAM or video. In fact, you could even try removing the RAM just to see if you can get it to beep. If you can get it to beep then you'll at least know the CPU is running.

Reply 5 of 25, by shamino

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One other thing - I remember bringing a P2B-D to life once by holding down <INS> while powering it up. At least I think it was INS, but I guess it could have been DEL or something else.
As I recall there was some post somewhere in the crevices of the internet saying that this would reset something.

Reply 6 of 25, by Trank

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Okay i will try all those things for sure. The jumpers though btw were set like that when i got it. I changed it to match the 450 Mhz Pentium II SECC2 i have. I could besure again that my jumpers are correct. Ill get back to you again soon. And thank you again.

Reply 8 of 25, by Trank

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I think i have these set right. Unless someone thinks otherwise. Again this is a Pentium II 450 Mhz.

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Reply 9 of 25, by fitzpatr

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Follow the steps in the User Manual to Clear the RTC (clrtc).

PC133 should be fine, as long as the timings aren't too tight. Clearing the BIOS should help bring things to default.

Your image shows correct jumper settings to my eye.

Do you have any fans connected to the motherboard, and do they show any sign of life?
Are you testing this in a case or out of one?

MT-32 Old, CM-32L, CM-500, SC-55mkII, SC-88Pro, SC-D70, FB-01, MU2000EX
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Reply 10 of 25, by Trank

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I will look into the clrtc right now. Im testing this in case. I tried other sticks of ram they got nowhere as well. So everything is still pointing to a dead CPU. Let me plug in a case fan. Just have to find one that i know works.

Reply 11 of 25, by Trank

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Okay yes, case fan spins. Very, very fast. I should mention sometimes once i flick the power supply switch, it will just instantly turn on without pressing anything. But turns off normally by holding the button. I think i may also have the panel power switch all wrong. Also on my board there is CLRTC, but nothing is actually soldered there. The manual says "Short the solder points". Whats the best way i can do this?

Okay another edit, i put a screw driver against it. That still changed nothing other than it stopped the computer from turning on once it was plugged in.

Reply 12 of 25, by shamino

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I agree, the jumpers look correct. Still, I'd try it set to 66FSB just to make it as easy as possible for the board to be able to boot (just in case it's a stability problem). If you do that, I think you can just leave the AGP jumper where it is, although technically you're supposed to move it to the 1/1 setting (at 100FSB it's set to 2/3).

Do you have a multimeter? If you do, try checking voltages. Put the negative probe against the PSU casing. You can measure 5v and 12v by putting the red probe into the pins of an unused molex connector.
For 3.3v, put the red probe into the back side of one of the pins on the ATX power connector with an orange wire.

You can probably measure Vcore using the pair of MOSFETs near the CPU slot. Most likely, the metal tab on the back of one of those will be +5v, and the other will be the Vcore voltage.
The one closest to the CPU might be hard to reach. As an alternative, you can get the same readings from the pins on the front of the MOSFETs. If you do that, be careful not to short them together. To help avoid that, you can wrap tape around the probe so that only the tip is exposed. The stub in the center is common with the tab on the back.

If any of these voltages are wrong it could explain the problem. You might even find that there is no Vcore.

Reply 13 of 25, by fitzpatr

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Before going prodding around with a multimeter, take the board out of the case, and try on just a flat, nonconductive surface. Don't plug in the power, reset, or other buttons. Instead, be very sure which pins are the Power Switch and short them briefly to power on.

When testing outside of the case, start with the most basic setup. CPU, RAM, Video Card. Nothing else should be installed, including IDE cables, Floppy cables, etc.

Something is happening if it is triggering the PSU to come on and get the fans spinning, so that's good.

MT-32 Old, CM-32L, CM-500, SC-55mkII, SC-88Pro, SC-D70, FB-01, MU2000EX
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486 Build

Reply 14 of 25, by Trank

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I wish i had a multimeter. Hopefully what i typed up there didnt sound wrong. What i was saying that for some reason at first the computer would just flick on if you plugged it in. But resetting the CLRTC made it function normally again. So i just hit the button and it goes. Fans still spin good. Hard Drive and CD drive get power as well. The CPU fan also spins.

Ill try setting the jumpers to 66FSB and see where that gets me. Thanks again.

EDIT. YOU WERE RIGHT. I set the Jumpers to 66FSB. I got it to Boot! We are getting somewhere.

Edit Two: The Voodoo Rush Bios displays, It sees the 3Com ISA network card. My hard drive is detected, dvd/cd is detected. Detects ram. I can go to bios. And i can launch into Windows 98se setup. So everything in that department seems fine. So whats the issue here now? Why would i have to underclock the FSB? Whats broken?

Reply 16 of 25, by shamino

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Trank wrote:

So I can go as high as 83.3 FSB. Which is 375 Mhz.(I reverted back to 66fsb though) If set to 100.3 It wont boot. Maybe my PSU cant put out enough power?

It could be a power issue, either from the PSU or at the board level. It could also be some other board level stability issue, or unstable RAM. It could be a dying/unstable CPU but I doubt it (just because it's rare).
Try some different RAM, and I agree with fitzpatr about disconnecting any unessential components like the hard drive and network card.
This makes me even more curious about the voltages. Since you don't have a meter, do you have a different PSU you can try?

When you get it to boot at a lower FSB, is there a BIOS health monitor screen that shows any of the voltages? Do you see them affected by what FSB you have it set to? Do they seem affected by having more components attached?
I should warn though that onboard sensor readings aren't reliable. On many boards they're wildly inaccurate vs a real meter so if they look good in the BIOS, I still wouldn't rule out the possibility of them being bad.

Reply 17 of 25, by Trank

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I will go into the BIOS and read the voltages and see how they change. Thankfully yes there is a voltage read out in the BIOS. Ill slowly raise the FSB and check voltages, then remove the other cards and try different ram.

My other PSU i have isnt the most reliable as its pretty used. But i may as well give it a go.

Reply 18 of 25, by Trank

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I took out everything other than Video, CPU and Ram. Tried both of my PSUs. Tried new Ram. I dont notice much of a change in the voltage. But +12 can go up and down like 12.2 to 12.3. And +5v will go from 5.1 to 5.2. I have tried about everything other than taking a Multimeter to it and trying a different CPU. But its looking like the Motherboard might be unstable with 100 FSB.

Edit: For now im gonna keep this how it is. I think im in the boat of thinking now its most likely the motherboard. I have it set to 66FSB/300 Mhz with my SLOW 3dfx Voodoo Rush. When my Pentium 3 450 Slot 1 arrives ill test that and see what happens. Again big thanks to everyone who helped me. I greatly appreciate it.

Reply 19 of 25, by Trank

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So I should say that the Pentium III 450 was tested. Same jumper settings as the PII 450 still no boot. Im just wondering now exactly what could cause a motherboard going wrong like this. From what i tell the caps are okay, if not in good condition. Just wondering what some of your last thoughts are.

If I cant repair it this board will be turned into a PII 333 Mhz machine. Maybe ill overlock that with the FSB settings to 75 FSB.