Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-16 @ 19:20

and lastly...
overhead view of the Toshiba Keyboard with dell keyswitch fitted and Toshiba Keycap replaced
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-4-16 @ 19:43

Looks good, it will never be perfect, but is very close to it. Glad to see the keyboards restored to working condition :D
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-16 @ 22:17

Hi Hamby ..
pulled a couple of these Dell key switches for you ..
If you want to take a chance an try them..
PM me your full address..and I'll post them.
They will take a while to get there ..so hope you aint in a hurry..
lol
..alternatively ..search this item on ebay 272696125143
apparently these are fairly common in the US ...assuming they are the same pinout ?
used of course but claimed 'tested'
rgds
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-4-17 @ 08:42

Mixed news, mostly bad.

So, I got the fan installed, and it works.

Remember the problem I had when the left alt key wouldn't work in applications, but crt-alt-del worked?

Yeah, the problem was real simple, only I didn't notice until after I tore down and cleaned my desktop keyboard...

The left alt and left ctrl keycaps are swapped.
Easy enough to fix.

However, whenever I boot it, it gives me the CMOS error, bad battery, etc.
F1, set cmos... finish boot... no problem.
So I figured the 2032 button battery I got was bad.
But then I noticed that if I turned it off and back on... while still plugged in... I still get the error.

One time I booted from a disk in drive A by accident.
Prior to that, it would say: "Booting A" then the next line "Booting C".
Now, with no disk in the A drive, or a non-bootable disk in the A drive, I get "Booting A"... "Error 2H!"... "Booting C"

So I tried installing the sound software, but it requires windows.

I got a trackball to use with this laptop, and connected it to comm 1 (irq4, 3f8h)
I ran the install program, and it couldn't find the mouse. I tried the other comm port, still no joy.
I ran the comcheck program that came with the trackball, and it didn't detect either port, either.
Back when I got the system, I tried connecting it to my other computer over the serial port, and it wouldn't connect on either serial port. I just concluded there was something wrong with the collection of cables, size adapters and null modem adapter(s) I had used.

Now, apparently there's something wrong with the motherboard. I haven't tried communicating from the parallel port.
(btw, can you have the printer port set to bidirectional and still connect it to a printer?)

So apparently my T5200 has dead serial ports. Since it's both of them, I'm guessing it's a bad chip somewhere. If that's the case, I really really really really hope it's a socketed, still existing chip.

Not a happy camper, atm.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-17 @ 09:26

Hmm ..not good news Hamby ..
I would assume that there would be some kind of serial port buffering on the plug in vga rear board ..
The repair manual may help here ..
http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/manuals ... Manual.pdf
and again I'm making assumptions ..both serial ports going out together ..
coincidence ?
again ..logically I would assume both are dealt with by a single device with a common power line.
Could you unplug the rear vga pcb and trace the serial lines back to find whatever device is used for buffering ?
Then check for a supply line to that device perhaps ?
I hope you get it sorted ..
perhaps Ian can be of more help ?
rgds
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby IanB » 2018-4-17 @ 12:24

Hamby wrote:Mixed news, mostly bad.
However, whenever I boot it, it gives me the CMOS error, bad battery, etc.
F1, set cmos... finish boot... no problem.
So I figured the 2032 button battery I got was bad.

Is the coin cell installed the right way? (+ side uppermost).

Hamby wrote:But then I noticed that if I turned it off and back on... while still plugged in... I still get the error.

Do you mean rebooting or actually turning it off while still plugged in as that completely powers the system down, there is no standby power so it would still be relying on the battery.

Hamby wrote:One time I booted from a disk in drive A by accident.
Prior to that, it would say: "Booting A" then the next line "Booting C".
Now, with no disk in the A drive, or a non-bootable disk in the A drive, I get "Booting A"... "Error 2H!"... "Booting C"

Mine does that too. It's an error from XTIDE and sometimes you get that when the drive is empty but not always. I think XTIDE is seeing a floppy in the drive so the error is a read failure.
I haven't found out what's causing it but I've not seen that error on the system with a normal floppy drive so it's probably some subtle difference with Toshiba's non-standard floppy drive that sometimes confuses XTIDE. It doesn't matter as you only get the error when the drive is empty anyway and then it proceeds to boot the C drive as normal.

Hamby wrote:Now, apparently there's something wrong with the motherboard. I haven't tried communicating from the parallel port.
(btw, can you have the printer port set to bidirectional and still connect it to a printer?)
So apparently my T5200 has dead serial ports. Since it's both of them, I'm guessing it's a bad chip somewhere. If that's the case, I really really really really hope it's a socketed, still existing chip.

For the parallel port, make sure the switch on the left side is set to PRT and not A or B external floppy drive which will stop the printer from working.

If the CMOS isn't working (e.g. due to battery issues) the serial and printer ports may not work properly as they are configured by CMOS settings. It's also worth reseating the video / IO board at the rear of the unit.
Last edited by IanB on 2018-4-17 @ 17:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-17 @ 12:34

Good info Ian ..
It hadn't occurred to me he might have the Cmos battery upside down.
I do hope he gets it sorted.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-17 @ 14:59

Look what I just found ...
101 x Matias Click Switches (Alps SKBM Clones) Mechanical Keyboard Switches
Not the genuine article ..but clones.
Fingers crossed they physically fit the keyboard pcb.
Got 101 NEW switches for £15 delivered..
more than enough to completely refurbish one keyboard .and spares to repair the other.
;)
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-4-17 @ 17:09

Neat. Good luck with the keyboard restoration, mate. I can count myself lucky that my keyboards works flawlessly, albeit it actually could use a good clean under the hood I guess and has slightly yellowed on the sides, but that's just age :D
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-21 @ 18:30

So ..the clone ALPS keyswitches arrived ..and are as I suspected ..larger than the original Toshiba key switches ..
about the same dimensions as those borrowed from the Dell keyboard ..but actually a fraction taller ..
This is not a problem for most of the keys ..but sadly make fitting where there is the additional steel retention/stabalising hinge ..a problem.
Answer ..ditch those hinges ..which just unclip ..
This makes for less stability ..and is a trade off ..
It's either that or dont have new key switches.
The only exception is the space bar ..which _needs_ stabalising ..so reformed that steel loop hinge a little.
Obviously all the keys stand a little higher now ..but generally acceptable.
..and since the new switches dont have the extra 2 'legs' ..I will have to link some of these contacts manually ..
The missing key switch legs form part of the circuitry of the keyboard acting as loop throughs.
These can easily be replaced with wire links ..but will take a while as there are quite a few needed.
Anyway ..
I'm attaching a couple of photos to show most of the main keyboard with new switches fitted ..
The other half (numeric keybad) has not yet been done ..and so a second photo showing the difference in height..
I estimate this to be between 1 and 2 mm
rgds
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-4-22 @ 06:55

Vipersan,

All this really means is that you'll have a bit more travel on keypresses, right?
I actually like having some key travel; I can't stand the modern chicklet keyboards.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-22 @ 08:58

Hamby wrote:Vipersan,

All this really means is that you'll have a bit more travel on keypresses, right?
I actually like having some key travel; I can't stand the modern chicklet keyboards.

You summed it up nicely there Hamby.
rgds
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-4-22 @ 09:27

Mixed news, mostly good:

I replaced the cmos battery, it seems to hold the cmos information now.
I removed and reset the i/o board... no change. still not finding the logitech trackman I'd bought just to use with the T5200 :(
On a hunch, I switched to the microsoft mouse my desktop dos box was using...
success.
Apparently my trackball mouse is dead. Another project will be figuring out how to make it work again.
(it also doesn't work on my desktop machine)

I installed the correct network driver software... it found the adapter, configured set up the packet driver...

but under WFW 3.11... it can't obtain an address from a dhcp server.
Bear in mind that this setup worked on my desktop dos box, except it used a kensington ethernet adapter. This adapter is a 3Com Etherlink III, PNP, and passes all the tests.

I tried installing the ESS 1688 audio drivers... but at the end it keeps asking me to "insert Disk #1" when I agree to reboot at the end of the install. The files are on the hard drive and on a drive in disk A; I don't know what the proper label would be. One last thing I'm going to try is dumping all the files in the subdirectories into the main directory of a directory on my HD, and install from there. Hopefully that will work.

I sprayed some contact cleaner in the enter key switch... it seems to be working *a bit* better. I think maybe a few more applications will make it functional again. I hope.

I love this machine. I'm now going to get one of those mobile access points so I can hook it up to the network wirelessly (right now I have a 30 ft long cable connecting it to the network... kind of a trip hazard lol)

update: just reseated the ethernet cable... didn't get the dhcp message... my win7 desktop finds it, thinks its the dos desktop.

Works for me!
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby IanB » 2018-4-23 @ 01:01

Hamby wrote:Mixed news, mostly good:
update: just reseated the ethernet cable... didn't get the dhcp message... my win7 desktop finds it, thinks its the dos desktop.
Works for me!

Looks like you are getting there!

Did the indirect fan have any effect on the CPU temperature?
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-4-23 @ 02:20

IanB wrote:
Hamby wrote:Mixed news, mostly good:
update: just reseated the ethernet cable... didn't get the dhcp message... my win7 desktop finds it, thinks its the dos desktop.
Works for me!

Looks like you are getting there!

Did the indirect fan have any effect on the CPU temperature?


I haven't been able to get a temperature reading, but after running it awhile, I could hold my finger on the heatsink for 20 seconds or so before it became uncomfortably hot. But that's of course not with the case closed.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-24 @ 18:15

Last pix before I fully fit the Keyboard ..
It is wonderful to have a full set of working keys..
I know the key alignment isn't perfect any more ..but better functional than pretty..
rgds
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Hamby » 2018-4-25 @ 11:42

I have a couple of questions about my T5200 maybe you guys could answer:

What video driver can/should I use with WfW 3.11 on the T5200? I can't go into display settings because it says my adapter isn't supported. I changed the driver in the driver settings from the 3DFX on my desktop dos machine to the VGA 3.0 listed in WfW 3.11.

It's a Paradise, isn't it?

Also, in the bios setup, it said (from memory, here) 640k ram 282k expanded ram. I had gone through the settings and it had various combinations including making all 8 mb extended, or making it expanded, or somewhere in between.

I left it at the 640 + 282 that the machine had when I got it, but I'm wondering what would actually be the best settings?

Hey, this might interest you guys; I've a couple TRS-80 model 100s, whose keyboards I love. I've been promising myself to figure out how to use a keyboard wedge to connect one to my Win7 PC. Well, on the club 100 website, I found a dos keyboard wedge. I'm going to see if it works.

This might allow using the T5200 with the lid closed and an external monitor, since the T5200 doesn't have an external keyboard port. I'll let you know what I come up with.
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby jaZz_KCS » 2018-4-25 @ 12:37

- You dont really need a video driver for your Paradise PVGA1 (?) because these Toshiba models do have - although indeed having one of the first Paradise SVGA compatible chipsets - only 256kb of video RAM, iirc. which means youre limited to a max of 640x480x16 at max, if I am not mistaken. I have tried installing various drivers for the exact same chipset on my T3200SX without success before realizing that it only has 256kb video RAM.

- In the BIOS, dont use extended or expanded options at all, instead, leave the allocation and initialization of extended memory to HIMEM and EMM386. Otherwise this could lead to problems. Early LIM compatible PCs like these do have expanded/extended memory allocation methods built in, but if you use DOS/Win3.1 anyways, leave the allocation to DOS/Win3.1.

- Why the T5200 doesnt feature an AT keyboard port like my T3200SX (revisited/revised T3200 that came out after the T5200) is beyond me. :) We should all have it. The "form factor" of these machines are very similar, so I dont get why we don't all have one :D)
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby OldCat » 2018-4-25 @ 13:00

jaZz_KCS wrote:- Why the T5200 doesnt feature an AT keyboard port like my T3200SX (revisited/revised T3200 that came out after the T5200) is beyond me. :) We should all have it. The "form factor" of these machines are very similar, so I dont get why we don't all have one :D)


This calls for another hardware mod by IanB!
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Re: Toshiba T5200 mods and upgrades

Postby Vipersan » 2018-4-25 @ 13:07

OldCat wrote:
jaZz_KCS wrote:- Why the T5200 doesnt feature an AT keyboard port like my T3200SX (revisited/revised T3200 that came out after the T5200) is beyond me. :) We should all have it. The "form factor" of these machines are very similar, so I dont get why we don't all have one :D)


This calls for another hardware mod by IanB!


I'll second that OC...
even though I'm close to closing the 5200 up ...I'd open it again for a KB mod..
:)
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