VOGONS


First post, by viper32cm

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I need some advice about my realistic expectations with one of my systems.

Last year I purchased a Zenith Z-Station GT with a Pentium 100, 32MB of RAM, and a OptiViper Socket 7 motherboard with an integrated ATI Mach 64 with 1MB of VRAM. My initial intent for the system was to act as a DOS machine using SetMul to run a wide range of games. However, a few months ago I decided that it would be nice to add Windows 9x to the system to allow me to play some Windows 95 era games such as Earthsiege 2, Command: Aces of the Deep, and others. With MS-DOS mode and SetMul, the system should give the flexibility to play games from the early-90s through 1997 or so.

However, I decided that my Windows 9x performance could benefit from a little extra power, so I dropped a Pentium 200 (non-MMX) in and started looking at video card options. I ultimately decided to purchase a Voodoo2 12MB to run alongside the integrated ATI Mach 64. Performance, however, feels a little lackluster compared to what I remember of similar systems back then.

I haven't run through my library of early Windows 9x 3D-accelerated games yet, but at the moment I've noticed the following:
1. I can play NFS3 fairly well, but the frame rate seems a little on the low side at 640x480
2. Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator runs in the mid-teens
3. The original Rainbow Six seems playable without any persistent frame rate issues
4. I can basically play Unreal at the lowest resolution and with the window shrunk a bit. (I know Unreal is asking a bit much from this system)

Is there anything else I can do to this system to find some extra performance? The next logical step would seem to be upgrading the 2D card to something like an S3 Virge, but I have the option of adding 1MB of VRAM to the integrated card. Did I mess up getting a Voodoo2 instead of an original Voodoo which would have been more appropriate for my setup?

Reply 1 of 8, by mcobit

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I think NFS3 is a bit demanding, too.
I use a P3 with Voodoo 2 for that.
Voodoo 2 was released in 1998 and is a better match for a P2 or 3 in my opinion as it is very depending on CPU speed. My P233 MMX has a Voodoo 1 card and runs Unreal very well in 640x480 but I think that game was optimized for MMX/3D Now.
Don't expect more than 30-40 FPS anyway. That was normal for those early 3D games.

I'd suggest using a Voodoo 1 card so you can play games with native glide support from the DOS aera like Quake, Tomb Raider, Screamer 2, Carmageddon etc. Maybe some Win95 Classics like Turok, Forsaken, BFS 2 or Deathkartz.

Reply 2 of 8, by viper32cm

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Could the Voodoo2 be making the situation worse, i.e., increased processor overhead or something like that? Ive had similar experiences with soundcards where a somewhat too new/advanced card can actually harm performance.

Reply 3 of 8, by derSammler

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I built a very similar machine especially for playing NFS2 and NFS3 using a Voodoo1. It started as a P133 and ended as an MMX 200. The P133 couldn't handle NFS2 well enough for me, and NFS3 didn't even run good enough on the MMX 200 (but NFS2 was fine then). While NFS3 was certainly playable, the frame rate dropped badly once you were close to other cars, making Hot Pursuit mode unplayable. So your system is probably fine, since it matches my experience.

You may upgrade the non-MMX 200 MHz with a MMX 233 MHz, which should give you a speed boost of ~30%.

Reply 4 of 8, by Anonymous Coward

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OPTi Viper is likely the problem. There's probably a reason this chipset failed so spectacularly.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 5 of 8, by tgod

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viper32cm wrote:

Could the Voodoo2 be making the situation worse, i.e., increased processor overhead or something like that? Ive had similar experiences with soundcards where a somewhat too new/advanced card can actually harm performance.

Voodoo2 should be less processor dependent than the original, since it incorporates full triangle setup, relieving the processor of those duties. It is true that it is unlikely a lower performance processor will be capable of providing the data rates required to reach peak performance of Voodoo2, but in terms of aggregate performance, Voodoo2 is less processor dependent than Voodoo1.

Reply 6 of 8, by viper32cm

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Anonymous Coward wrote:

OPTi Viper is likely the problem. There's probably a reason this chipset failed so spectacularly.

Yeah, I think you're right. The question for me, though, is how much benefit would I receive from a more modern/better motherboard.

Also, how much of a limiting factor is my integrated video card? It's perfectly fine for most DOS games, but I swear that the computer feels slower in 16-bit color mode versus 256-color mode in windows.

Reply 7 of 8, by canthearu

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viper32cm wrote:

Also, how much of a limiting factor is my integrated video card?

Really depends.

If the onboard video is using system RAM, then you definitely need to try using a discreet video card. Onboard video using shared memory is a huge parasite on CPU performance on these older systems. Even just the memory bandwidth to run the RAMDAC is hard on CPU performance.

However, If the onboard video has it's own individual memory, then it ussually isn't a major drain on system performance. You probably won't see any improvement in voodoo 2 performance by going with a discreet PCI card.

Reply 8 of 8, by viper32cm

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canthearu wrote:
Really depends. […]
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viper32cm wrote:

Also, how much of a limiting factor is my integrated video card?

Really depends.

If the onboard video is using system RAM, then you definitely need to try using a discreet video card. Onboard video using shared memory is a huge parasite on CPU performance on these older systems. Even just the memory bandwidth to run the RAMDAC is hard on CPU performance.

However, If the onboard video has it's own individual memory, then it ussually isn't a major drain on system performance. You probably won't see any improvement in voodoo 2 performance by going with a discreet PCI card.

No, it has discrete VRAM. I have a full 32MB of RAM available at all times.

UPDATE:

I had some more time to play around with it today. While not necessarily a hard and fast rule, it does well with 3d-accelerted released before Windows 98. I'm definitely getting acceptable performance out of games like Battlezone, Heavy Gear, and others. I think I'll call that good enough.