gdjacobs wrote:

Run SETUPDS then load DSDMA, apparently.

Problem is that i dont know why in some drivers packages - for example in Vogons DOS packages is not DSDMA.exe, i didn overlook something, i just copied files i didnt used install.. but i have found DSDNA in AOPEN driver package.

Results:
On Z97 computer freezes in every memory manager settings, on X58 (HP O.E.M MB) its running well, so settings is good, thanks for help.. Z97 seems to be dead end.

Only strange this, which i had to make it working on X58, with EMS, was this strange line which i found someone on internet, i needed it too to make Creative SB emu driver load for Audigy. Im using HimemX, i dunno if it matters.

1DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM
2instead of classical: DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\emm386.exe RAM 

Its working in both and XMS boot branches, by which i means this:

1EMS- DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=65424 /METHOD:FAST /VERBOSE ; DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE 16384 D=64 FRAME=E000 /I=B000-B7FF RAM
2XMS - DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=65424 /METHOD:FAST /VERBOSE ; DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE noems

Its not working in Protection mod, because DSDMA needs EMS running..

1By protection mod author of my config means - DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=65424 /METHOD:FAST /VERBOSE 

no EMS line

Could someone confirm intel H/Z 6x/7x/8x compabitility with Yamaha 7x soundcards? They should have native PCI implementation unlike Z97.

Thanks for help.

I have a sound card with a Yamaha YMF719E-S chip.
It’s an ISA card I don’t know who manufactured it.
P/N : ATC-6631
Rev. 94v-0

I have yet to hook it up, I just got it and I don’t have any manual or drivers for it.
Does anyone know what type of card this is and where can I get drivers ?
Also is this card any good ?
How does it compare with SB 16 ?

The Yamaha sound cards from Philscomputerlab website will work. There's a video with installation instructions and comparison also.

Hmmm, Very similar to the "Yamaha Audician sound card".

Hi i finally completed my first round of X58 + Yamaha 744 Pure DOS compatibility testing (97 games), now is time check results and for suggestions what to try to fix problems, any help is welcome.
It would be really nice if someone with Yamaha 72x / 74x would retest some of problematic games, if has same problems, if he/she would have older chipset that me, even better - it would be really nice to now if problem in soundcard and drivers in usage of too new chipsets.

X58/i865/V880 - Yamaha7x4/AurealV1/2 pure Dos7.1- compatibility list/research/ultim. drivers configs, WIP- gurus needed

Ok have tested 130+ games, in find ~20 not working (described in Not working games for now section of first post) with Yamaha SB emulation, could someone pleas retest someone them too and tell if has same problems?
Pleas add info about used MB.
X58/i865/V880 - Yamaha7x4/AurealV1/2 pure Dos7.1- compatibility list/research/ultim. drivers configs, WIP- gurus needed

Some comments:

Tertz wrote:

  1.2. The comparison with other cards      General: The main advantage of YMF7x4 among PCI cards is real OPL3. The cards withou […]
Show full quote

  1.2. The comparison with other cards
  
  General: The main advantage of YMF7x4 among PCI cards is real OPL3. The cards without hardware FM have it much worse. SB-Link allows higher games compatibility in real DOS than other ways. Cards made by serious brands have better sound quality than many models of YMF cards. Newer drivers of other cards might to have better later games support.
  OPL3-SAx (like YMF719) - much more limited 3D sound, higher CPU load, no hardware assisted MIDI, sound quality is a little worse, issues with MPEG 48 kHz. Unlike 7x4, they often have wavetable header and WSS compatibility.
  SB Live - better EAX support, lesser CPU load, 32 hardware DS3D streams. Higher games compatibility because of drivers and hence less issues with 3D sound. Some people, using headphones, like Sensaura's 3D effects more.
  Diamond MX300 (Vortex 2) - better A3D support, has A3D 2.0. 16 hardware DS3D streams. Worse MIDI.
  Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (CS4630) - another Sensaura based, but with Virtual Ear in the bundle and ZoomFX. Has equalizer. 32 hardware DS3D streams.
  Philips Seismic Edge PSC705 (SAA7785) - QSound based, 5.1 speakers, 64 hardware DS3D streams, lesser CPU load, better reverb effects, strong HQ amplifier.
  M-audio Revolution 7.1 (ENVY24) - Sensaura based. 24 bit/96 kHz, good SRC to 44.1, higher sound quality. Higher CPU load with 3D sound in games. No A3D 1.0 support.

What about the Ensoniq AudioPCI cards?
  

  The standard bank of YMF drivers is 8-bit with mostly 22 kHz samples for constructing instruments by placement tables. Many instruments use the same samples, only with different effects, and some are the sum of 2 waves (AWM2).

AWM2 has nothing to do with being the sum of two waves, it is the second generation of Yamaha's PCM sample-based synthesis (AWM, which stands for "Advanced Wave Memory"), hence the "2". On Yamaha's more advanced AWM/AWM2 synthesizers, you can compose your own instruments by modifying and combining up to 2, 4, or more elements (wave samples). The maximum number of elements depends on the synthesizer.

The standard 2 MB bank contains 676 instruments and special effects, and also 21 sets of percussions. From them 480 instruments, 9 percussions and 2 sets of special effects are available in XG mode, while others are used for GM and GS. The quality of standard bank is in the middle between software XG synthesizer S-YXG100 and board DB50XG *. DB50XG is better on percussions, especially. Compared to softsynth, YMF7x4 sound more softly and clearly, without stuttering and delays. Power YMF allows to use better 16-bit 4 MB bank with the quality close to DB50XG. In WinXP may be used software synthesizer S-YXG50.

The article in question compares the output of the card, daughterboard, and softsynth using a human listener (enough articles have been filled with why this isn't good enough). A comparison of ROM dumps and/or actual recordings (with professional equipment, home consumer stuff is too flaky for that) would be more revealing.

  There is also software synthesizer S-VA (Software Virtual Acoustic) on the basis of Sondius-XG, allowing to play up to 256 monophonic voices of string and wind instruments (128 instruments in total). S-VA is compatible with VL synthesizer of tone generator MU120, but allows to play only one VL instrument at the same time.

There is no MU120. There is a MU128, but that one lacks VL capability. The US release of the MU100R is the one meant here, as it includes the correct daughterboard. However, the only polyphonic Yamaha VL synth is the VL1. All the others (VL7, VL70m, EX5, etc.) are monophonic, just like the S-VA. VL voices are not GM-compatible, and are useless for anyone who is not a musician.

  YMF have hardware assisted XG MIDI, so effects are mostly done in software. The CPU load during XG MIDI playing on Pentium II 300 is <5%, and <40% with Sondius-XG.
  YMF7x4 support effects: changing of attack times, rising, fading, frequency pitch of phases for attack and fading, resonance cutoff filter, modulation via phase, frequency, amplitude, octave changing, fine tuning of tone of separate notes. Overlay of 3 effects at the same time: chorus (8 types), reverb (8 types), variation (36 types). Effect "variation" includes: delays, stereo panning, celeste, karaoke, flanger, rotary speaker, symphonic, tremolo, phaser, distortion, overdrive, equalization, changing of panning, wah-wah, echo, additional variants of reverb and chorus. Each effect's type has manipulators, allowing to receive different sounding of the same effect *.

Typo? The YMF effect block is very similar to the standard XG effect block, which is part of the ROM on XG modules.

  1.11. Music composing      To compose XG MIDI music you need programs:   1) Sequencer.   - Yamaha XG-Works - supports all XG c […]
Show full quote

  1.11. Music composing
  
  To compose XG MIDI music you need programs:
  1) Sequencer.
  - Yamaha XG-Works - supports all XG cards. However it's not good, as does not work with MIDI keyboard emulators and has a peculiar style of working with tracks.

The abilities and workflow of XGWorks depend on the version used. Versions previous to 3 are quite different to the later plug-in-based versions. There's also SOL and SOL2, and its derivative XGWorks ST, which are very different from previous Yamaha sequencers.

Besides, "it's not good" is very subjective. XGWorks probably is the best and especially most accessible choice right now, as it can be found for free on the web, unlike other programs.

OTOH, if someone has a source for SOL (the update files are still available on Yamaha Japan's site, the full program is not), I'd be rather grateful...

  2) XG editor.
  - XG-Edit - the most complete XG editor
  - XG-Gold - not bad

Unfortunately, these are very hard to find these days, and it's pretty much impossible to get XG Gold registered.

  3) Multi-MIDI driver which allows to work simultaneously with one MIDI port from several applications and emulate serial/parallel connections.
  - Multi-Midi Driver - commercial, older versions 1.x work perfectly in the unregistered mode
  - Hoobis Loop-back Driver - has the problem of swallowing MIDI stream sometimes

- Yamaha CBX driver with multi-MIDI option enabled?

      2.3. Changeable noise      Identify the type of noise: 1) when you move the mouse and HDD works, or 2) when the screen upd […]
Show full quote

 
 
  2.3. Changeable noise
  
  Identify the type of noise: 1) when you move the mouse and HDD works, or 2) when the screen updates. Having the 1st type, try to mute unused inputs on the card like CD-Audio. Also the problem may to be in low quality of the card or bad power subsystem of the system board.

It can also be caused by coils in the PC's power supply (this does not imply the power supply is bad), or by a ground loop.

I have question how Yamaha PC speaker header is working? I never used it.

Need it working Yamaha driver loaded in memory to make it work, its is working independently on it?
Which cable should be used - its same analog audio cable between MB speaker header and sound cards what is used for Souncd card analog CD rom audio?

Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
by Intel486dx33 » 2018-7-07 @ 15:47
Hmmm, Very similar to the "Yamaha Audician sound card".

Looks like A-TREND Harmony 3DS719 - see VOGONS Driver Library
But this is the ISA card and does not belong to the family 7x4

Hi,I'm happy to anounce you that I have successfully tested Yamaha YMF744B-V PCI on a modern Core gen.2 MB - Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3
1st thanks to Ruthan who borrowed me his YM744 for a short test.
My setup: MB: Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3 - http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/gap67ds3.htm (CZ-only)
CPU: intel Core i7-2600k, 4GB DDR3
VGA: nVidia GeForce 7900GT
Audio: Yamaha YMF744B PCI

Notes: My MB use intel P67 chipset that lacks native PCI and so the PCI support is provided by PCIE2PCI bridge ITE IT8892E. So there's a chance that DOS sound will work even on newer MBs with similar solution. Maybe also with external PCIE2PCI adapter (if configured properly). I use native PS/2 KB+Mouse so I don't rely on USB legacy BIOS support (the USB code in BIOS is usually buggy and crappy). Most tested games works fine except those using SB Pro - there are crackling sounds in SFX. Also there's problem that DSDMA DOS TSR needs v86 mode environment (EMM386/QEMM386) that is not compatible with some pmode extenders and older games. I also had to limit XMS size to 512MB (704MB max) otherwise DSDMA just rebooted while loading. Also DOS4GW extender needs to limit XMS some below 2,5GB otherwise it failed to load with error:
DOS/4GW (ver 1.97) fatal error (1307): not enough memory
DOS/4G (ver2.61) fatal error (1010): can't initialize loader LINEXE_LOADER [1]
So I have in my config.sys:
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEMX.EXE /MAX=512M /METHOD:FAST /VERBOSE
REM we can use UMBPCI to get some UMB
DEVICE=C:\DOS\UMBPCI.SYS /I=D000-EFFF

As DSDMA requires v86 mode I played with different memory managers.
EMM386 can be used without EMS support if not needed by game/demo (e.g. 2nd Reality required at least 1MB EMS)
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS D=64 HIGHSCAN AUTO VERBOSE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE FRAME=NONE RAM D=64 HIGHSCAN AUTO VERBOSE
Also QEMM386 works quite well (but genarally I found QEMM386 a bit unstable on modern MBs compared to EMM386/JEMMEX):
DEVICE=C:\QEMM\QEMM386.SYS RAM ROM XBDA:N ARAM=B000-B7FF X=F000-FFFF X=C000-CFFF RF ST:M
(note that the switches are specific for my MB and probably crash on other MB/BIOS)
Of course I also tried JEMMEX but no luck there. I managed it to load with DSDMA by line:
DEVICE=C:\DOS\JEMMEX.EXE A20METHOD:FAST XMSHANDLES=96 MAXEXT=512M MIN=32M MAX=64M VERBOSE
but I cannot run any pmode game because the extender irrationally complains:
DOS/16M error: [17] system software does not follow VCPI or DPMI specifications
Spawn Error: Error 0
Sure there is VCPI provided by JEMMEX ad if I don't load DSDMA the games works fine (without sound) so they got VCPI services. But probably DSDMA some way badly interfere with JEMMEX and break VCPI after it loads. So I gave up JEMMEX, sorry.

Finally some short games/demos test:
DynaBlaster: SFX OK, Music OK
Doom1 SFX with crackling, Music OK
Doom2 SFX with crackling, Music OK
Blood SFX OK, Music OK
Duke3D SFX OK, Music OK
Quake SFX with crackling, Music n/a
SandWarriors SFX OK, Music OK
Wolf3D SFX OK, Music OK
2nd Reality SFX with crackling with SBP stereo / SFX OK with SB mono
Dream SFX OK
Boost hangs due to Pmode/w vs v86
Generally if the game used Sound Blaster Pro I was getting some crackling noise in SFX, see video below. I could't fix it. If there was a setup where I can select a different SB type like SB16 or SB 2.0 8bit mixing it plays nice and clean. But e.g. Doom doesn't offer this options.

So regardless some problems I'm very impressed by this soundcard. I didn't belive that I will ever hear sound from SB EMU under pure DOS again as my all attempts with SB Live and Audigy SB EMU drivers totally failed (even no Adlib/FM synth) on this MB. I will seek for some Yamaha sondcard to buy and then I will continue with experiments. I have Gigabyte H55 MB and Asus M4A79XTD for test.

Test video part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gylKDf2m6e8
Test video part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJLfJHVEBQ
(sorry I didn't have time to setup some external sound recordig so it's just captured by cam microphone).

I not have thesee crackling problems with my X58 machine and Dos 7.1, i also never testing anything else than SB Pro, because i though that only SB Pro is supported, because it was in Kamerat list and it config samples was always T4 for SB Pro new. Other difference is that im using YMFIRQ 5 edge, Rayer doesnt...
I never heard this sort of crackling, only Dune II with SB pro enable and Master of Orion 1 and Master of Magic have in SB pro mode different low quality audio crackling.. no such periodical, but sound is somehow broken.

I have same problem with JEMM, details are here:
EMM386 explanation, warning-fix Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame / unable to set page frame + tuning
Other important thing in link above is that on some machines EMS RAM just not working and you have to fiddle manually with "I" and FRAME variables, JEMM give you only some warnning collision message - but it could be easily over looked - and it results in lots of EMS fails - depends on which collion is involved - i personally i had up to 1/3 of games not working.. NO EMS is solution too, for games which are not requiring EMS - DR_ST started to make a list:
Re: X58 PC+ Yamaha744 sound card-pure Dos7.1- compatibility list and research, work in progress- gurus needed - info
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … hat_require_EMS - list
Side effect of fiddling with EMS for me was:
1) solve modern Nvidia pure Dos freeze
2) squeeze much more free conv. memory - it ranged from 560-610 - so it make huge difference with Modern card + less with older or ATI cards - where is squezee 590-618 KB, ATI cards at least older (ATI mach 64/ X800) has probably smaller VBIOS, or more clever allocation.

Result is clear, even with these problems, Yamaha 744 is better solution, that Adlib on LPT port which supports few games, which i saw in some Phils video. Pure dos gaming on up to Core i7 3770k is not bad:) I would test my Haswell / Broadwell Z97 board in week or two, FM worked, i didnt tested FX, because at the time i didnt undestand that i need DSDMA..

Yamaha YMF744 review just popped up at PhilsComputerLab Youtube channel.

Other thing which in theory which could increase compability is DOS SET blaster variable:

I did all my test with T4, but regarding of this info:
http://www.oldskool.org/guides/oldonnew/sound

Extract:
1: Sound Blaster 1.0 (the original Sound Blaster)
2: Sound Blaster 1.5
3: Sound Blaster 2.0
4: Sound Blaster Pro
5: Sound Blaster Pro with OPL 3 FM chips
6: Sound Blaster 16

I maybe should use T5?
Other thing which i dont fully understand is that regarding of some technical sheets and Kamerat sheet, is Yamaha 72x/74x capable of SB pro, but Rayer tested what SB16 is working too and there is 16bit Mix in setup utility and for me also 16 bit mixing in Blood setup etc.. is working too? Its some fallback and its actually used SB 8 bit mixing when is SB16 selected, or this card is 16bit capable? Its it only paper thing, but could this increase Sound quality?

Ok, i retested all problematic games with Core 2 - i865(ICH5) board + Geforce 6 + Yamaha 744, combination where ~60-70% of problematic games are working with SB !Live (same Core2+G6 machine).. and compatibility level is exactly the same as with X58 (ICH10), ~95+% of problems are exactly the same as with X58.

So conclusions are:

• Problem are probably caused by Yamaha driver or its DSDMA,exed mode. If someone could test Yamahas in SB-link mode or DDMA mode it would be interesting to compare results, it problem is DSDMA or basic driver..
• Its simply make no sense to use Core 2 + Yamaha combination, its slower that X58 for any other application and setmul l1d is too slow on Core 2 Duo, could be used only with limited set of games, on X58 it works much better.
  Main Core 2 machines advantage is still in much bigger sound cards choice possibilities..

List of problematic games and other details:
Re: X58 PC+ Yamaha744 sound card-pure Dos7.1- compatibility list and research, work in progress- gurus needed

Hi,
I just bought Yamaha YMF724F card from neighbour Poland (If someone is interested, there's cheap offer of YMF744 cards now: https://allegro.pl/yamaha-ymf744-xp-bez-stero … 7492780578.html ) and tested it.
I pushed the card into my PC (intel P67 chipset) along the SB Audigy - both cards can work in one PC without any conflict. I will continue to use Audigy in Win/Linux and YMF for DOS. I have simple lineout switch where signal goes to PA.

So, in my case YMF724F works fine, without any crakling on SB Pro setting like previous test with YMF744.
Then I tested the card on 3 other 'modern' motherboards:
intel: Gigabyte GA-H55M-S2 with 2 native PCI slots - sound works fine
AMD: Asus M4A79XTD EVO, Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H - sound doesn't work at all (setupds.exe recognized the card and dsdma.exe TSR loaded without error but programs cannot play any sound neither setupds.exe was unable to play internal test sounds)

My personal notes: http://rayer.g6.cz/hardware/gap67ds3.htm#DOS_SBEMU (CZ-only)

RayeR wrote:

AMD: Asus M4A79XTD EVO, Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H - sound doesn't work at all (setupds.exe recognized the card and dsdma.exe TSR loaded without error but programs cannot play any sound neither setupds.exe was unable to play internal test sounds)

The AMD chipsets doesn't allow accessing legacy ports over PCI, you might try this instead and maybe you can confirm that it also works on a YMF724 (used a 790X board myself for testing): Using Yamaha the YMF744 under DOS without legacy/ISA addressing

I only checked if there is PCI bridge with subtractive decode enabled and it is:

PCI device #14 found at bus: 0, dev: 20, func: 4
Vendor ID: 1002h (Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI])
Device ID: 4384h, Revision ID: 0, Class: 06h (bridge)
Sub-Class: 04h (PCI to PCI bridge, subtractive decode)
DB name: SBx00 PCI to PCI Bridge
IRQ: 0, none, Cache line size: 0 Bytes, Latency: 64, max 0us, Status: 02A0h
BAR0: 00000000h, BAR1: 00000000h, ROM base: 00000000h, Sec. Status: 2280h
Primary bus #: 0, Secondary bus #: 4, Subord. bus #: 0, Secondary Latency: 64
Memory addr.: FBF00000h - FBFFFFFFh, I/O addr.: F000h - 0FFFh, SVID: 00000001h
BCTL: DTE-,DTS-,SDT-,PDT-,FB2B-,SBR-,MAM-,VGA16bDe-,VGAEn-,ISAEn+,SERREn+,PERE+
CMD: IntDis-,FB2B-,SERREn+,WCC-,PER-,VGAPS-,MemWIEn-,SCE-,BusMa+,MemSEn+,IOSEn+

The YMF724 is connected at PCI bus 4:
PCI device #25 found at bus: 4, dev: 6, func: 0
Vendor ID: 1073h (Yamaha Corporation)
Device ID: 000Dh, Revision ID: 3, Class: 04h (multimedia device)
Sub-Class: 01h (audio device)
DB name: YMF-724F [DS-1 Audio Controller]
IRQ: 10, INTA, Cache line size: 0 Bytes, Latency: 64, max 6us, Status: 0210h
BAR: FBFF8000h, 00000000h, 00000000h, 00000000h, 00000000h, 00000000h
ROM base: 00000000h, Cardbus CISptr: 00000000h, Subs.VID: 1073h, Subs.ID: 000Dh
CMD: IntDis-,FB2B-,SERREn+,WCC-,PER-,VGAPS-,MemWIEn-,SCE-,BusMa+,MemSEn+,IOSEn-

So I don't see a problem here.

Yes, there's some PCI registers that enables substractive decode for the SB750, registers described from page 290 for device 4384h. I haven't checked if substractive decode is enabled on my motherboard. Still I cant reach the legacy ports of the YMF744 or 4DWave-NX.

Edit: Checked the registers on my board and they are correctly configured for substractive decoding, but it looks like AMD screwed somthing up. Tried a CMI8738 card, can't get Duke Nukem 3D to detect Sound Blaster. In Descent setup there's only sound from one channel when trying OPL3 playback at port 388, OPL2 are mute when testing but works when selecting port 38a 😕.

RayeR wrote:

So, in my case YMF724F works fine, without any crakling on SB Pro setting like previous test with YMF744.

Crackling was there probably because of wrong settings, driver is the same for 724 and 744.

ruthan wrote:

Crackling was there probably because of wrong settings, driver is the same for 724 and 744.

I didn't make any changes in DS.INI I just loaded the same driver as it was laying on my HDD from previous test and wonder it doesnt crackle now...

Kamerat wrote:

Checked the registers on my board and they are correctly configured for substractive decoding, but it looks like AMD screwed somthing up. Tried a CMI8738 card, can't get Duke Nukem 3D to detect Sound Blaster. In Descent setup there's only sound from one channel when trying OPL3 playback at port 388, OPL2 are mute when testing but works when selecting port 38a 😕.

OK, as it still can find OPL it means IO read/write forwarding works through bridge so it's not the problem. Maybe there's some other magic with DMA that it works on some board/bios and on some not. I don't know nothing about how legacy DMA emulation is done by these drivers...