Adding my 486 to my Network

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Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Ultrax » 2019-3-24 @ 07:25

I have a closed (as in, offline and private) network for my old computers. I currently use it with my XP machines, and it is very useful. I even have the network set up with WiFi, so I can tap into it via my laptop (or an XP laptop) to transfer files.

Well, I recently installed Windows For Workgroups on my 486 machine. I don't have (or want) a CD-ROM drive for this machine, so my plan is, since it's WFW, just install an ISA NIC and have at it.

Would my 486 work properly with this network? The router for my closed network is quite new (still sold today, a Belkin F9K1119) so I wonder if it might use a more modern LAN protocol (is that even a thing?) that 3.11 can't recognize. I plan on getting it a 3Com 3C509B TPO EtherLink III. Assuming I install the drivers properly and run Network Setup under Windows and configure Windows to be able to share files with other computers on the network, would it be detected by other computers? For example, if I go to the Network tab in Explorer on my laptop, would it show up there? I have never done this before (clearly) so any help is greatly appreciated! :-)
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby zyga64 » 2019-3-24 @ 08:34

It is still the same TCP/IP protocol, so everything should work ok. Another thing is SMB authentication...

In my opinion, for file sharing, FTP is least troublesome. Just set up ftp server on XP machine (using Filezilla server), and you can access it with Total Commander 16 bit.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby yawetaG » 2019-3-24 @ 08:51

Just make sure the 486 gets an IP address assigned at startup and is always connected to the network. WfW will hang (well, wait eternally) at startup if the network components are installed and it hasn't got an IP address.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Ultrax » 2019-3-24 @ 09:23

I've never had serious trouble with SMB before, thankfully. I'll certainly give the FTP server a try if I can't get direct sharing to work very well. (Direct sharing is flaky even between XP and 7, as it would simply not detect the computers. It was worse with my old router, but still occurs with the new Belkin.)

The Belkin immediately assigns the computer an IP address (for example, 192.168.2.6) as soon as it's connected/identified, so it all should work well.

Thanks for the replies! :-)
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Deksor » 2019-3-24 @ 10:02

You need the 32 bit TCP/IP stack for Windows 3.11.

Also what I did in my network was installing a raspberry pi (can be any Linux machine really) with samba installed, because modern windows don't use the exact same protocol. This allows me to put files on it from modern computers, and then get them back from the very old computers :)

It's kinda like a NAS for old computers ^^
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Ultrax » 2019-3-24 @ 10:34

Deksor wrote:You need the 32 bit TCP/IP stack for Windows 3.11.

Also what I did in my network was installing a raspberry pi (can be any Linux machine really) with samba installed, because modern windows don't use the exact same protocol. This allows me to put files on it from modern computers, and then get them back from the very old computers :)

It's kinda like a NAS for old computers ^^


https://winworldpc.com/product/microsof ... p-32-3-11b Like this?
Also, if I'm able to at least get to my 486 through one of my XP machines, I think I'll be fine. I may eventually get Samba on my Pi 2 B+ if it proves to be too difficult to communicate with my 486 otherwise.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Deksor » 2019-3-24 @ 11:06

Yes this is what you need. I've never tried it with XP, but wfw can access windows 9x shares, so I guess it should work with XP
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Ultrax » 2019-3-24 @ 11:32

I was reading another thread where someone was unable to fully transfer files from their 3.11 machine to their Windows 10 machine, but was able to with XP. Vista and up dropped NetBIOS (I think that's what it is) along with other components that 3.11 uses to share files over the network. So, it should work.

Edit: 7 should be able to connect to my 3.11 machine, as long as there isn't a password. I don't plan on setting a password, so it's possible that I might be able to talk directly to my 486 from my laptop. We'll see when I get the card. It may not work since my laptop is a 64-bit machine running 64-bit Windows.

Thanks for the help :-)
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Intel486dx33 » 2019-3-24 @ 20:11

I have Win 3x computers on my home network.
Using Cisco / Linksys WIfi router/swtich provoded by my ISP.
But any Cisco or Linksys Wifi router/switch should work for providing TCP/IP support and issuing out IP addresses.
I also use a WIFI-N extender from TP-link for providing WIFI support to my old computers which only have ethernet.
I just sync up the WIFI extender to the Cisco router and then take it to the room with the 486.
Connect the WIFI extender to my computer ethernet connection and I an online.
It's that easy.
I use WD-My Cloud NAS drives for storage.
They work great with DOS too. I can access my WD-MyCloud shares from the home network.
That is where I have all my DOS files stored.
So in every computer build I make. I always add a Network card for home Network access.
I don't use large drives anymore like Zip drives and tape backup drives.
I just use my Network storage drives.
They TP-Link WIFI extenders work great with any kind of computer ( PC/Mac/Linux/UNIX ).
even home entertainment devices that require internet access.

You will need to add the "32 bit TCP/IP stack for Windows 3.11" search the internet for download.
Windows NT 3.5.1 has everything built in.
And Win95 too.
There is also DOS drivers for 3com network cards.

I recommend 3com 3c509x and AMD PCI Family Chipset Network cards for Win3x.
They are easy to setup and inexpensive today.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby jmarsh » 2019-3-24 @ 23:37

Ultrax wrote:I was reading another thread where someone was unable to fully transfer files from their 3.11 machine to their Windows 10 machine, but was able to with XP.

Windows 10 disables use of SMB1 by default (so it can't be accessed by win98 and earlier) but it's easy to turn back on.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby feipoa » 2019-3-25 @ 01:57

Not all modern routers are friendly with old OSes. Firmware updates for my Netgear Nighthawk R7000 keep breaking Win9x and WFW3.11 access. Again, I'm faced with having to track down the latest firmware to work as recent updates killed assess to my Win9x and Win3.11 machines.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby tayyare » 2019-3-25 @ 10:07

I setup many Windows for Workgroups 3.11 machines (from 386 class to PIII class) as part of my home network and had not much problems.

You need to install Win32s and TCP/IP 32bit packs to your WFW 3.11 machine, setup a default gateaway IP, and then either setup a permenanat IP for the machine or let the DHCP server do that. It always worked.

Only trick here is, according to my experience, the file sharing is one way only with modern machines. While you can see the shared space of your WFW 3.11 machine from your Windows 7 machine for example, and can copy files in it, it will not work the other way around. So you need to create a non password protected and full read/write share in your WFW 3.11 rig.

I don't know about any other routers/switches but the ones I use (home network based on EA 6700 main router, EA 6400 router as extender/access point, WUMC 710 bridge, and SE2500 switch, all from Linksys) does not create any problems to date.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Deksor » 2019-3-25 @ 10:32

That's why I love the pi, in my setup it serves as a passthrough between my home network and retro pc network, no shady router firmware, just a Linux machine acting as a router.

Maybe one would like to have some sort of documentation about pros and cons, and how to build such thing ?
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby feipoa » 2019-3-25 @ 10:37

tayyare wrote:Only trick here is, according to my experience, the file sharing is one way only with modern machines. While you can see the shared space of your WFW 3.11 machine from your Windows 7 machine for example, and can copy files in it, it will not work the other way around. So you need to create a non password protected and full read/write share in your WFW 3.11 rig.

Yes, this is the catch I am referring to.

My WinXP machine can read/write to a shared folder on Win95 provided that you provide the correct password (8 char or less). The Win95 machine can see that there is a shared WinXP resource, but it cannot access it. When you try to access it, you see the following screen. Even if I type in the XP password, the result will be, "No permission to access resource."

To get around this, the router has a hard drive attached (NAS) to it with no password. There is nothing of value on that HDD - just some video files. I have found that both the WIn95 and WinXP systems can read/write to the NAS folder.

On the other hand, NT4 is able to still access my WinXP machine. I'm not sure about NT 3.51.

IPC.jpg
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby 1541 » 2019-3-25 @ 13:28

If you come across this screen ("No permission to access resource") upon writing from Win9x to another ressource, you can try to install the NTLM 2 authentication for Windows 9x/NT (DSclient.exe).
Follow this approach: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... reifen.htm
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Ozzuneoj » 2019-3-25 @ 13:47

Deksor wrote:Maybe one would like to have some sort of documentation about pros and cons, and how to build such thing ?


I would be interested in this. Also, would it be possible to do this somehow with a second router using a third party firmware? I'm sure I'll eventually want to get an old machine on my network buti have a Netgear R7500v2 so I didn't be surprised if it didn't work.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby chinny22 » 2019-3-25 @ 13:48

feipoa wrote:
tayyare wrote:Only trick here is, according to my experience, the file sharing is one way only with modern machines. While you can see the shared space of your WFW 3.11 machine from your Windows 7 machine for example, and can copy files in it, it will not work the other way around. So you need to create a non password protected and full read/write share in your WFW 3.11 rig.

Yes, this is the catch I am referring to.

My WinXP machine can read/write to a shared folder on Win95 provided that you provide the correct password (8 char or less). The Win95 machine can see that there is a shared WinXP resource, but it cannot access it. When you try to access it, you see the following screen. Even if I type in the XP password, the result will be, "No permission to access resource."

To get around this, the router has a hard drive attached (NAS) to it with no password. There is nothing of value on that HDD - just some video files. I have found that both the WIn95 and WinXP systems can read/write to the NAS folder.

On the other hand, NT4 is able to still access my WinXP machine. I'm not sure about NT 3.51.

IPC.jpg


Another way round is to use the same login on all PC's.
The problem is older OS's don't follow the domain\user format that NT versions of windows expect and as you can see that box doesn't allow you to change the username so it just tries with the username you logged in with.
In theory if you created matching accounts on the NT based system it should work, but I've had mixed results with that.

Also don't forget the WFWFILUP.EXE patch to correct file managers y2k bug
http://www.conradshome.com/win31
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Intel486dx33 » 2019-3-25 @ 14:12

You can also setup and old computer as a NAS.
I use to use an HP SFF 8300 computer with 4gb ram , (2) large hard drives and Intel i3 CPU or better.
Load it with Win8 and configure it to support old network security settings and file systems.
It’s really easy to setup. And with Win8 you don’t have to worry about updates and reboots like you do in Win10.
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby Compo Simmonite » 2019-3-25 @ 17:04

Deksor wrote:You need the 32 bit TCP/IP stack for Windows 3.11.

Also what I did in my network was installing a raspberry pi (can be any Linux machine really) with samba installed, because modern windows don't use the exact same protocol. This allows me to put files on it from modern computers, and then get them back from the very old computers :)

It's kinda like a NAS for old computers ^^


The opposite seems to be the case for me.
I have a rocky318 sbc with an ISA NIC running WFW3.11 with TCPIP stack installed. This box has a shared drive.
My win98 and xp machines can access this drive, read and write to it with no issues.
Two linux laptops (xubuntu 16.04 and 14.04) can both see the folders on the shared drive but cannot see the contents. I can copy a folder containing files to the rocky drive, all the files will be copied but only the folder will show. If i check using a windows machine all the files are there. If I copy a folder (with contents) to one of the linux boxes only the folder itself is copied.

Checked the samba configs etc, all appears ok. Any ideas?
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Re: Adding my 486 to my Network

Postby SirNickity » 2019-3-25 @ 18:14

I haven't seen that specific issue before, but I do remember having to change some settings once I upgraded my Linux NAS to Samba 4. It started defaulting to the higher NTLM protocols as well, which broke access from XP and below. I don't know enough about the SMB/CIFS protocol and its many dependencies to make an educated guess whether the CIFS client would have changed any, but perhaps it's worth mentioning regardless.

Might also be something simple, like permissions on the folder and/or the user your 'Buntu clients are using to connect. Maybe that client doesn't have read permissions? Try writing a file and seeing who owns it on your server. Then see whether that user owns the parent folder, or is at least a member of the owner's group.
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