VOGONS


First post, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Hi there,

I need some advice for great software my 286/8 1MB ET4000 SBpro.
I already discovered that:

1. Quickview 1.03 is the best Image-Viewer for that machine
2. GLXplayer 2.12 is the best audio-player for that machine

What about video-playback?
Is it possible to get converted video on that machine running? perhaps with sound on low-res (160*100)

Greetings
Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 1 of 14, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Another interesting question for me is the ram-usage on the old painting-programs.

Deluxepaint 2.x/3.x does not work fullscreen on 256 colors in more than 640x400.
16colors are not opssible in fullscreen higher as 640x480.

PCPaint 3.1 does seem to work in 800x600 @16 colors, but loading Images tell me that
some 640x480 16 color images can be loaded, some not. I always thought that the
same resolution with the same color-depth leads to the same ram-usage, but that
does not seem toi be right on pcpaint31, on dpaint it seems to be right.

I can't upgrade the ram, so I have to try the best with the limited 1MB RAM.

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 2 of 14, by mrau

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

that depends on format i believe and the way displaying is handled;
i assume the 1mb is system ram, not the et4000?
1024x768x8bit should be doable if not too much is occupied by other stuff;
if ram is a serious limitation maybe a memory card would help? i mean speed is not critical for static pics anyway

Reply 3 of 14, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Two things:
1. System RAM = 1MB (around 580KB free below 640K and about 320KB XMS)
2. VRAM on ET4000 = 1MB (256Color Ram-Dac)

Quickview 1.03 can display 1024x768 TGA Images within 1-2 Seconds on that machine,
but painting-programs need much more RAM, then quickview with it's 55KB.

The interesting point is, that the same colordepth and resolution does not mean that it's working,
if one image is working. Perhaps the Ram-Usage differents because of the complexity of the image
and the amount of colors that are truly used on it.

Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 4 of 14, by rmay635703

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Some very old draw programs could use the vram directly for image data leaving system ram open.

My Motorola 68010 does that but you can’t scroll images and zoom is very slow

I’m guessing the draw programs of that vintage wanted to support and rasterize images that likely didn’t match the video cards color depth.

One does have to wonder why they could support “direct” in your case that would be ideal

Reply 5 of 14, by mrau

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

the only thing imho which causes big memory use in raster graphic editors is the undo feature - or am i forgetting something?
maybe i'm just ignorant but 55k is a lot to just show a tga? (uncompressed or RLE i suppose?)
its the editing program that should use this much;
what kind of editing do You do? what is required for this to work as expected?
as for video mode matching - why wouldnt You just force the right mode when starting the program?

Reply 6 of 14, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Its the fun factor of being able to start the painting program within the limitations of the machine
but being able to load an image and fully view it and being able to edit it if I like to.

Deluxepaint requires EMS for higher resolutions and greater colordepths, but that is a problem when using a 286. I can use EMS286 but that leads to 64KB pageframe under 640KB. That requires a reboot only for Deluxepaint. On a normal setup (without ems) that last working 256color-resolution on deluxepaint is 640x400. On 16 colors it's 640x480. All higher resolutions in these colordepths lead to a grey field on desktop, where the loaded image is not visable.
On PCpaint 3.1 I can use 800x600 at 16colors for the full image. But some images do load, some don't. They have the same resolution and the same colordepth. e.g. I have one pcx-file that has 55KB and one that has 135KB. The 55KB file does not load (not enough memory) that 135KB file loads without problems. Why is that so?

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 8 of 14, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I have no slot free. I'll have to stick to the limitations and make the best out of it.

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 9 of 14, by mrau

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

so what were looking for is a program that works this around with temporary files?
or one that will just use the video ram to do this?

also - would You share intimate details of that setup? whats in there? nikkid pics of the innerts?

about video from your first post - i believe video can be encoded into ascii which should be quite fluent to display on a 286; ADPCM is supported in hardware on your system?

Reply 10 of 14, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Setup:
- A2286/8Mhz 287 FPU
- 1MB RAM
- ET4000 1MB Diamond Speedstar
- Formosa SC1630 SBpro ESS1688 4x2GB CF Card PC-Dos50
- 3COM Etherlink Network

Doing Video in ASCII would be Interesting. I have plenty of space as you see above.

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 11 of 14, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

my 286/8 1MB ET4000 SBpro

😢

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 12 of 14, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
dr.zeissler wrote:

What about video-playback?

On a 286 ? Sure. In Windows 3.1 with QuickTime 2.x or Video for Video for Windows 1.0.
Or FLI / FLC animations with AAPlay for Windows. However, that requires some RAM (2MB, better 4MB).
On plain DOS, there used to be AAPLAY and the picture viewer "PV". The latter can play MPEGs, too.

dr.zeissler wrote:

Is it possible to get converted video on that machine running? perhaps with sound on low-res (160*100)

The video player "CGAView" can display films in 640x200 (?) CGA resolution..
Fronzel's CGA and PC speaker DOS treasure box

Edit: The files of PV are gone, sadly.
- I've made a little ZIP package with v2.78 (English) and v2.77 (Deutsch) for you.

Edit: I've also added Video for Windows 1.0 for you.

Attachments

  • Filename
    vfw10.zip
    File size
    460.63 KiB
    Downloads
    23 downloads
    File comment
    Video for Windows 1.0 (1992). 286 and higher.
    Includes support for Cinepak, Video 1, Indeo
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    pv_pack.zip
    File size
    1.01 MiB
    Downloads
    20 downloads
    File comment
    PV by W.Wiedmann. Shareware,
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 13 of 14, by Caluser2000

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

You can update ram on systems such as this. All it requires is an ISA ram expansion card. Some come with up to 4megs or more available. Later ones take 30 pin sims. They're pretty pricey though. Also some need setup software which is usually unobtainable and documentation fairly scarce.

boca-4374-8mb-isa-memory-expansion-card-30-pin-21.18__87192.1490260970.jpg
Filename
boca-4374-8mb-isa-memory-expansion-card-30-pin-21.18__87192.1490260970.jpg
File size
178.53 KiB
Views
296 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
isamemcaerd.jpg
Filename
isamemcaerd.jpg
File size
12.64 KiB
Views
296 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

There's a glitch in the matrix.

Reply 14 of 14, by dr.zeissler

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I do have some ISA-RAM Boards, but I am currently thinking about a MPU401i Interface instead of a Ram-Card.

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington