System Shock is playable using DOSBox (at least using standard VGA mode). This has been discussed on several different threads.

Unlocked topic again. My wrong. It seems I misunderstood the previous thread.

Simoyd wants to know if there a way for running SS smoothly without using DOSBox. I guess you can try with VDMSound and tinkering with CPU/DOS frequency features in advanced options.

I wonder if those complaining about SS and performance have tried the latest CVS. I don't have the CD version of SS but the floppy version works quite well in DosBox for me.

Considering that I can play Mech 2 quite fine in 640x480 I don't see why the CD version wouldn't work well.

This is on a XP 2800+

1) i'm not complaining. i'm simply trying to fix a problem
2) you are right, it will run in dos box just fine on lowest settings. But sadly your information is not new. I already stated that I could run it in the first post. I want to run it on a higher resolution and am curious if anyone has something consturctive to add. (I have yet to try out the cpu usage thing as I am at work at the moment but i'm hoping it will do something...)

so please read carefully before posting unconstructive comments.

Ive tried to give as much information as possible to answer possible questions that may help solve this issue. Please try to take me seriously As I am only posting a new topic as a last resort after looking everywhere on the internet (ok maybe not everywhere 😊 )

Simoyd wrote:

1) so please read carefully before posting unconstructive comments.

Keep your ego in check there, partner...

OK, so you have a dual-core workstation. Try the following:

First off, use the below text as the contents of your new (testing) CYB.CFG file for SYSTEM SHOCK.

1midi_list 7
2midi_card 12
3midi_io -1
4midi_irq -1
5midi_dma -1
6midi_drq -1
7digi_list 9
8digi_card 1
9digi_io -1
10digi_irq -1
11digi_dma -1
12digi_drq -1

This is the GENERAL MIDI in WinXP (SP2) for the 'music' card and the Original SoundBlaster for 'digitial card'. Do NOT run the install program, just make sure the above values are the only ones in your CYB.CFG file.

Do the following steps as outlined. Do NOT use VMDsound 2.1.0, or NoLFB.COM or MOUSE2KV.EXE at this time. They are not necessary to the initial functionality test of SYSTEM SHOCK. Furthermore, NoLFB.COM is not neccessary at all for SYSTEM SHOCK to function properly. The VDMsound and Mouse2KV can be used later after you solve the slowdown you have now encountered.

Now open the WinXP (SP2) MS-DOS emulation (known as the NTVDM) so it is open at the "DOS" prompt. As an aside, make sure that the system CONFIG.NT file has the FILES=37 as a value so that is available in the instance of the NTVDM in which you executing SYSTEM SHOCK. The only additional NTVDM add-on necessary is to execute the DOSX.EXE file (it acts as the DPMI v0.9 hook) and go on to the next step. Normally the DOSX.EXE Tsr is loaded by the default WinXP (SP2) AUTOEXEC.NT file, but make sure yourself.

Next, start the WinXP TASK MANAGER and under the 'Processes" tab find the process NTVDM.EXE, right-click and set the 'Affinity' checkmarks to "CPU 0" only. If you are running any software processes (not device drivers) which alter or modify the sound stream, move those so that their processor affinity is to "CPU 1" on your dual-core workstation.

Now, finally - start the Mok's patched version of CDSHOCK.EXE (no batch files, no alternate DOS4GW.EXE) - just CDSHOCK.EXE by itself and see how the game now responds on your dual-core system...

Please post back so we know.

dvwjr

thanks for your reply. Autoexec.nt does a lh on dosx (i ran it at the command prompt anyway) and config.nt had files=40 (changed it to 37. I'm sure 40 is ok but I follow instructions to the letter 😊 ). The cpu affinitiy I had tried once before but using att the other crap with it(vdm, mouse, nolfb). When I start up the game I get no com port errors, which I like, but I do get A black screen that doesnt go away (I waited about 120 seconds). When I add the line "cd_data_dir_path D:\cdrom\data" to the config file it boots up but I still have the problem of the game running slowly.

Now... am I stupid? should i have copied all the files to the C drive manually? Is the game using some dos cdrom driver access something that is making it all go slowly?

I copied all the stuff from the data dir on the cd to the data dir on the hard drive and clicked no when asked to overwrite 2 or 3 files.

The game then started up without taht extra line in the cfg file but alas It is still running slowly... (note I was doing the processor affinity thing every time I started up the game)

and just to be abit more discriptive here. "slowly" is still defined the same. none of these changes even made a little difference whatsoever. Im not saying that I dont like your help, Im just being clear that its still not playable.

Note: to the other post, I tried the processor speed usage thingy in vdm but it didnt do anything (I tried 1/8 1/4 1/2 3/4 of the slider and none made any difference)

also: I have formatted recently, so there isnt random stuff on my computer that is interfearing and im not a moron who is prone to spyware or viruses anyways so thats not it either.

something of intrest: I do install all windows updates, this includes software updates like .net framework 2.0 etc. I dont think this would be an issue, but maybe theres some update that dates dos. As I said b4 I'm using SP2, what I didnt say before that it's installed from an sp2 cd, not a normal install then upgraded. (again, not sure if it matters at all).

The only thing I can think of is that its having a hard time moving frames to the graphics card... I dont know how or why. I'm running a VGA Geforce 7800 GTX CO (vga is the brand name not the max res 🤣). I tried unoverclocking my entire system back to stock and that didnt help either. So I have no clue what could be holding it up.

do you have any other suggestions?

OK. First the CONFIG.NT requirement was FILES=37 as a minimum. If you have anything over the FILES=37 statement your are AOK.

Next, I made the assumption that most people do not use a CD-ROM or CD-ROM image to play SYSTEM SHOCK, but copy the contents of the CD-ROM sub-directory \CDROM\DATA to the hard drive at location ..\SSHOCK\DATA so that all files come from the hard-drive. Seems you figured this out.

The 'processor speed thingy' in VDMsound is the same as the NTVDM 'Idle Sensitivity' slider located on the "Misc" tab of an NTVDM shortcut. In your case make sure the NTVDM shortcut that activates your "MS-DOS" windowed 'DOS' prompt for SYSTEM SHOCK has the Idle Sensitivity set to LOW (slider all the way to the left) before continuing. Forget about VDMsound for now...

To compare systems, I have an Intel P4 640 (3.2GHz) with Hyperthreading on - so I have the dual-core software issues that you see without having an actual dual-core system. I also use a Leadtek GeForce 6600GT so I know that our VGA/VESA video BIOS is the same. Since you are at the SP2 (plus current hotfixes) level of WinXP we probably match there also since there is only a private NTVDM update available from Microsoft for fixes to COM port release issues. Bottom line is that the Virtual/Physical machine both of us are using are close to being identical. Your physical CPU is faster, but I am not sure that you are yet wrapping the internal speed counter in SYSTEM SHOCK.

Now here is the next action I would suggest after you check the steps listed above. Shutdown and re-boot your WinXP (SP2) workstation. When you have re-booted and get to the LOGON screen - then LOGON. Let all the startup program crap you have run until the system stabilizes. They key is to NEVER let any screen-saver or display power-saving mode happen before you first start the NTVDM shortcut in which you are going to execute SYSTEM SHOCK. Now fix the affinity of the NTVDM to CPU 0 and execute only the file CDSHOCK.EXE inside the NTVDM window. You SHOULD get the COM1/COM2 port error(s) (click ignore) with the Mok's patch version of CDSHOCK.EXE, if you do not get those errors then you will get the 'black' frozen screen.

Let us know,

dvwjr

ok, I set the idle snsitivity all the way to the left (low) and rebooted and started up cdshock right away. Didn't help. 🙁

I was over at a friend house, he has a 3.4 prescott HT and a bfg 6800 gt oc. and I was able to run the game with only the mox patch, just double clicking the exe. It makes me sad 🙁

I am running a 64 bit proc but not a 64 bit OS so that theoretically shouldnt matter and HT and dual core like you said arent different as far as the os is concerned...

At my friends house I was screwing around with the higher resolution patch (800x600 and 1024x768) and noticed that there was some sort of patch for nvidia cards that you needed for something regarding a farme buffer when running higher resolutions. I installed it on his and was able to run higher resolutions which was good so I figured maybe my problem was simmilar but more affecting.

I tried the patch on my computer and guess what.

suspense.

it did nothing.... I have no idea why it works on his and not mine... any other suggestions?

NTVDM is screwy.

Some apps run just fine in Windows 2000 NTVDM but don't in XP NTVDM.
Some apps run just fine in XP NTVDM but don't in 2000 NTVDM.

The 2003 NTVDM is really screwy on my computer since apps seem to run much more slowly and switching between fullscreen/windowed modes takes even longer than 2000/XP NTVDM.

If you have an extra partition laying around on your computer I'd simply install DOS/Windows 9x. If you don't want to go that route but would rather try to get SS working in NTVDM then I'd use that extra partition to install Windows 2000/XP/2003 (Straight off the CD and NO UPDATES OR 3RD PARTY PROGRAMS!) and compare their SS performance to yours.

You could also try Microsoft Virtual PC although sound quality isn't very good there.

Benefit of trying other Windows versions on your computer is that if you are finally able to get it working then you can share that knowledge with everyone else and mabye we can pinpoint it down to something more specific.

Hmm, could you check and see if there's a GIVEIO.SYS in your \SYSTEM32 directory? Certain versions of this driver can cause DOS programs to stop working although I guess potentially can cause other problems (it directly accesses I/O which is always a problem under NT).

If it's there then rename it, and try your game.....you may need to reboot your computer. (Be aware that this driver is used by system monitoring programs so they will stop working once you rename it).

It appears that even with you performing the steps outlined, the SYSTEM SHOCK performance on your very fast dual-core AMD workstation is still SLOW, but it actually works in the WinXP (SP2) NTVDM environment, correct?

How about the time it takes the three startup 'splash' screens to function under DOSBOX vs your NTVDM startup times? Your first message indicated that the NTVDM execution of SYSTEM SHOCK had the three initial splash screens go by VERY quickly. I timed DOSBOX with the full core (not dynamic) at around 11,500 cyles on my P4 640 and compared it to the NTVDM environment on the same workstation and the times for the completion of the three splash screens was very close (around 7 seconds) in my case. Your first message makes me think that on your system the three splash screens went by in about 2 seconds or less. Is this correct?

Your message also indicates that your very fast system does run the initial SYSTEM SHOCK introduction sequence, but very slowly. Discounting for now the possibility that some sort of driver on your WinXP system is playing fast and loose with Port IO on your workstation (as mentioned by DosFreak) it is possible that your overclocked dual-core AMD CPU(s) are so fast that the 1994 SYSTEM SHOCK code is finally having a problem with code execution being faster than anticipated. (Just the opposite circumstances from when it was launched 4th quarter 1994) 😦

To see if CPU speed is the problem, go to the home of CPUKiller 3 and download the free trial version (20 minute limit) of CPUkiller3. This slowdown application for WinXP deals with Intel HT and Dual-core CPUs and AMD dual-core CPUs. Install the trial CPUkiller 3 and execute this program with it set to slow down your dual-core AMD system to say 25% of its processor speed. This will put your workstation below the speed of my Intel P4 640 (3.2GHz) system on which SYSTEM SHOCK works AOK. Now do all the other steps I outlined in previous messages (fresh re-boot, no screen blanking, affinity CPU 0, Idle Sensitivity Low, FILES=>37, DOSX loaded, no VDMsound, no NOLFB.COM, no MOUSE2KV.EXE, sample CYB.CFG from above, only use Mok's patched CDSHOCK.EXE, ignore any COM1/COM2 WinXP messages - etc). Play with the speed control of CPUKiller3 to see if you can increase the actual speed of SYSTEM SHOCK in the NTVDM environment by decreasing the apparent speed of your CPU(s) by wasting CPU cycles...

The patched VGA.SYS you have seen mentioned at the TTLG forums was tested here long before that forum's recent 'discovery'. It is a Microsoft WinXP (seperate version for SP1 and SP2) system file which was patched to allow NVidia video adapters to access the both the VGA Sequencer and Miscellaneous Output registers while running under WinXP. Without this patched VGA.SYS file your maximum NVidia VESA resolution would be Mode 101h (640x480x256 colors). I have attached the video test program SVGATEST.EXE to this message. Use it in the same NTVDM window you have prepared for SYSTEM SHOCK before you try to execute SYSTEM SHOCK with the CPUKiller3 running. Try command-line option 4 to test the various 256-color VESA resolutions. If you only get up to VESA mode 101h then your VGA.SYS patch did not stick as Windows SFC replaced it with the original VGA.SYS file.

I'll be interested in what you report,

dvwjr

Edit: Added updated SVGATEST.EXE utility program.

heres what I meant by fast. I think i said fast fading but im not sure so i'll clarify. the screens themselvel take 8-10 seconds to go away by themselves so about 30 seconds for all 3 screens to go by.

in dosbox it takes about 1-2 seconds for one screen to fade out and the other to fade in. In ntvdm it takes about half a second to fade out and fade back in. its just the actual fading animation, not the time it's displayed that is faster.

The cpu killer did nothing. on higher settings it made things worse. I tried 25 50 75 30 and 40. (so i was running at 100 minus those numbers percent processor power.) on 75 it was framy fading the splash screens, and on 25 it has no difference.

I ran the vgatest before and it seemed to work. got up to 107 on the #4 test.

any other ideas?

OK. Good test on the CPUKiller 3. That means your dual-core AMD64 is not too fast for SYSTEM SHOCK in the NTVDM. The VGATEST option 4 test maxes out at VESA Mode 107h (1280x1024x256color) for me also...

Next we go to AMD and dual-core CPU(s) specifics.

Take a look at this Microsoft Knowledge Base article 896256 - Computers that are running Windows XP Service Pack 2 and that are equipped with multiple processors that support processor power management features may experience decreased performance.

Also check out this message thread on AnandTech about Windows XP SP2 Dual Core Performance Fix for additional information and HotFix download sites.

I'm not an AMD guy so check out the possible interactions of the AMD Cool-n-Quiet and the need for the latest X2 drivers if it is enabled in the system BIOS. Here is a link on the Silent PC Review titled Cool-n-Quiet Athlon 64 Motherboards that might affect your system performance.

Here is a link to the AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual Core Processor Utilities & Updates which has a version 1.2.2.2 for AMD Athlon 64 X2 dual core processor driver for WinXP.

I have applied the hotfix mention in Microsoft KB article 896256 to my Intel P4 640 HT CPU, perhaps you should do what might be necessary for your AMD dual core workstation.

I have one more suggestion after you try the above...

dvwjr

I'm debating if trying to install any of that is worth trying. here's why.

all of those articles are related to cpus changing their clock speeds based on load. I have Cool'n'Quiet disabled and my clock speed is always maxed out, so I'm not saving any power. I have the newest bios but im not sure installing any of these will help in my circumstance.

If you still think I should try any of them then I will but I dont think it will do anything given the current state of the CPU.

Simoyd wrote:

I'm debating if trying to install any of that is worth trying. here's why.

No problem on the Cool-n-Quiet, if you have it disabled in the system BIOS then the AMD drivers do nothing for you. However, the Microsoft KB 896256 DOES affect all WinXP (SP2) installations where the workstation has either Intel Hyperthreading or AMD64/Intel dual-core CPUs. This is for the dispatcher in WinXP, Microsoft's original design specification for WinXP (not Server) did not include what this HotFix provides. It doesn't take long to install and the registry key mentioned in the article can be used to easily disable.

Just for completness try installing the Microsoft HotFix and reboot... One more thing to try after this.

Hope this helps,

dvwjr

ok, ive got some good news and some bad news. first the good news:

i seem to be able to consistantly run system shock properly (proper speed). I have done it 3 times

bad news (well not bad, just not so good). I am not sure if the hotfix helped but heres what I did. When i rebooted after applying the hotfix, I was being an impatient little brat and started up command.com right after I loggen in while stuff was still loading. I then started up system shock and it worked (from now on when I say it worked i mean it goes at proper speed). I then celebrated and quit. Then opened up this forum to write my reply. then i thought, what if it screws up when I enter the game, bucause I had previously only gone into the menu. Sure enough I started up the game and the intro was playing slow and nothing worked at all... So I started terminating processes in the process menu. nothing helped. I have been able to consistantly start up command.com right aftr I log in and system shock works. if I wait till the comp is completely booted up then it doesn't. I am able to quit system shock then wait then start it up again and it works (so long as I use the same dos window, starting command.com up again wont work). this leads me to believe that If i start up command.com then wait then start up system shock it will work too although I havent tried it.

to the point. What application on startup could be causing this?
heres some registry

"NVMixerTray" ="\"C:\\Program Files\\NVIDIA Corporation\\NvMixer\\NVMixerTray.exe\""

"NvCplDaemon" ="RUNDLL32.EXE C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup"
"nwiz" ="nwiz.exe /install"
"NvMediaCenter" ="RUNDLL32.EXE C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit"
"SunJavaUpdateSched" ="C:\\Program Files\\Java\\jre1.5.0_06\\bin\\jusched.exe"
"SoundMan" ="SOUNDMAN.EXE"
"SmartGuardian" ="C:\\Program Files\\ITE\\Smart Guardian\\ITESmart.exe"
@ =""
"NVIDIA nTune" ="\"C:\\Program Files\\NVIDIA Corporation\\nTune\\\\nTune.exe\" clear"
"RemoteControl" ="\"C:\\Program Files\\CyberLink\\PowerDVD\\PDVDServ.exe\""
"ccApp" ="\"C:\\Program Files\\Common Files\\Symantec Shared\\ccApp.exe\""
"QuickTime Task" ="\"C:\\Program Files\\QuickTime\\qttask.exe\" -atboottime"

thats all in local machine and the only things in current user are msn and stylexp (which is a windows xp theme thing) note that I have disable visual themes set in the shortcut I use for command.com.

any idea were I should start and what could be affecting this?

you also mentioned to start up command.com first to make sure it is the first thing run using vga stuff or something. could one of these applications be doing that? or simply runing in the background might be a problem.

In the mean time I am going to fire up vdmsound and mouse2kv to fix the music and stuff and see how that goes. any idea what applications I should remove from startup?

command.com? It's not necessary to use that and in my experience it's quite a bit slower than cmd.exe. Beside's NTVDM works the same in CMD.exe as it does in command.com, although there are a few differences in command.com II've NEVER had to use command.com to get a game working in Windows 2000/XP and I've tested over 600+ games......

You'll probably get the same behavior as you have been getting anyway since we you have narrowed it down to a driver/program issue.

NVCPL=is fine
nwiz=is fine
NVMediaCenter=is fine
Java=is fine
Soundman=? Never heard of it. Guess it's your soundcard program. It's probably fine.
SmartGuarding=? Never heard of it. Does it look at SMART on your HD? Might want to check the original package and see what drivers it uses to check your HD.
Nvidia Ntune=? Could possibly be a problem but I doubt it.
RemoteControle=is fine
ccapp=Is fine
Quicktime Task=Is Fine

Also these aren't the only things that could affect this problem. I'm not booting into Windows right now but if you go into Device Manager and choose the option to show hidden devices you'll see a ton of hidden drivers. Once of those may be the culprit.

How doth i get a usb keyboard to work in here...

edit: smartguardian is my mobo monitoring thing (voltage, speeds, heat etc.)

i'm updating my mobo driver stuff atm cause i got a few exclimation marks when I view hiden drivers 😮

For USB keyboards and mice you need to enable USB legacy in bios.

Simoyd wrote:

How doth i get a usb keyboard to work in here...

edit: smartguardian is my mobo monitoring thing (voltage, speeds, heat etc.)

i'm updating my mobo driver stuff atm cause i got a few exclimation marks when I view hiden drivers 😮

Well, partial good news at least...

USB keyboard should be just fine.

Anything which monitors your physical hardware might have a cheap hack (in the form of a device driver) which basically allows unrestricted access to x86 IO ports. Some culprits are GIVEIO.SYS, OSAIO.SYS, DIRECTIO.SYS and others. They usually live in the \Windows\System32\Drivers sub-directory.

Now as to your quick starting of COMMAND.COM before all the startup programs have run to completion. This could help me run down a bug with the WinXP NTVDM so please try something you mentioned above.

Do your quick COMMAND.COM startup (but do not run SYSTEM SHOCK now) and leave the window ready and waiting. Now let all your normal startup programs finish (one of them probably loads a device driver which gives full access to x86 IO ports) and open a second COMMAND.COM window. Now try to runs SYSTEM SHOCK in the first COMMAND.COM NTVDM window that you opened (yes I know that to make it work you start up SYSTEM SHOCK right away) and next try to run SYSTEM SHOCK in the second NTVDM window you opened.

Let me know if SYSTEM SHOCK runs SLOW in both windows when you try this or NORMAL in the first NTVDM and SLOW in the second NTVDM. I'll upload a test file for you to try (if you are willing) that will help narrow down some NTVDM bugs.

Thanks again,

dvwjr

dvwjr wrote:

Well, partial good news at least...

USB keyboard should be just fine.

Anything which monitors your physical hardware might have a cheap hack (in the form of a device driver) which basically allows unrestricted access to x86 IO ports. Some culprits are GIVEIO.SYS, OSAIO.SYS, DIRECTIO.SYS and others. They usually live in the \Windows\System32\Drivers sub-directory.

Its not fine 🙁 I cant find any of those files in my windows system32 drivers folder, should I download them? how whould i get this to work?

note also that im not using a qwerty keyboard, it's dvorak, but i can type qwerty so I dont care if it thinks it qwerty.

sure, you can upload A test, ill do stuff thats fine.

I already tried booting up, starting command.com right away and waiting till everything loads and then starting system shock, and it did NOT work as i thought it would, I actually need to start the game for it to work. Does this invalidate your test or do you still want me to try it?