VOGONS


First post, by ala_borbe

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hi guys and girls

it my first post here, so i hope i made it in right section
i got i retro bargain that i could not miss... i got myself Radeon 7500 DDR but its MAC edition of card... for 4euro yyyyeeeeeyyyyy

is there any option to convert this to PC? it bees if i just insert it in pc and gives no image, as expected...

i found two opposite guides (converting pc card to mac) but for different, newer cards like 9600 and 9800

http://thomas.perrier.name/otherStuff/ati9800convertEN.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20050512081415/http://www.techseekers.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=71

is there any sense to try this and has anyone tried something like this before? do you maybe have a dump of radeon 7500 ddr bios for pc version?

thanks in advance and i hope i did not brake any rules

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Reply 1 of 12, by Doornkaat

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It should be possible.
The guides you found show flashing a PC card to Mac or modding a Mac card so it can be run in another Mac, so forget about those. 😉

First you'll need a Radeon 7500 32MB PC BIOS. Sadly I have put away this card into storage so I can't just provide you with it. But maybe some other member can?
Second you'll need a PCI graphics card to boot your PC with - ideally a non-ATi/AMD card.
Third you'll need a PC running Windows and the programm AMD/ATi Flash.

Install both graphics cards and connect your monitor to the PCI card. Boot your PC like you normally would.
Then use AMD/ATi Flash to flash the PC BIOS to the card.
Lastly shut down your PC and remove the PCI card to test the AGP card for function.

There might be another way for Radeon 7500 32MB cards. I have found a DELL VGA Bios that might be compatible. It's in the self extracting archive I attatched. Instructions according to DELL are as follows:
1. Have a formatted floppy disk ready.
2. Execute the BIOS file, follow the instruction to create the floppy disk for flashing process.
3. Boot system with the floppy disk that was created.
4. The flash should start automaticly. Wait until the flash is complete and reboot the system.

Good luck! 😀

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Reply 2 of 12, by ala_borbe

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ok
first of all thank you for your response

i found in my stash some low profile radeon 7500 ddr... it says so on sticker... but it has different eerom but same factor, small 8 pin chips
i have programmer so i will try to read bios from that card and write to mac card

so you think that its only or just a first step for conversion?

i have no time today, but tomorrow the experiment starts 😀

Reply 3 of 12, by matze79

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tech powerup has a PC BIOS Collection

https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/

Grab one which fits your Memory and GPU Clock and flash it with atiflash under msdos.

Mac has twice eprom size of PC versions, thats not a problem..
but flashing pc versions to mac its often needed to solder a bigger rom 😉

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 4 of 12, by Doornkaat

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matze79 wrote:

tech powerup has a PC BIOS Collection

https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/

Grab one which fits your Memory and GPU Clock and flash it with atiflash under msdos.

I already checked that out. They don't have the 7500 BIOS, only 7000 and 7500AIW. 🙁

ala_borbe wrote:

i found in my stash some low profile radeon 7500 ddr... it says so on sticker... but it has different eerom but same factor, small 8 pin chips
i have programmer so i will try to read bios from that card and write to mac card

If you're successful you may consider uploading your 7500 VGA BIOS there. 😀

Reply 5 of 12, by ala_borbe

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pfff, situation almost got out of hand... i decided to desolder eprom chip (ST25P10V6) and program it with new bios
so i backup mac bios, erased, and programmed and bam, there was an error

took old broken hard drive (WD80gb) and found another 25p10 and programmed it with bios posted here...
not that Dell, it was the other one

to my surprise, card booted... installed driver from ati and in device manager it says all-in-wander???? WTF???

so i started digging on the net and found a bunch of dumps but only few with Samsung DDR ram... most of theme are Hynix branded
i will have to play around with it to find best matched bios... i found spec on the net

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon- … ac-edition.c646

gpu: 260mhz mem: 180mhz (360 effective ddr)... but other cards have wildly different specs

the game continues tonight... will update

in meantime here are 2 big repositories of bios roms not found on TechPowerUP

http://halentech.czweb.org/biosy/biosy_main.htm

and

http://radeon.ru/downloads/bios/

will post update soon...

Reply 6 of 12, by Doornkaat

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ala_borbe wrote:

took old broken hard drive (WD80gb) and found another 25p10 and programmed it with bios posted here...
not that Dell, it was the other one

to my surprise, card booted... installed driver from ati and in device manager it says all-in-wander???? WTF???

The TechPowerUp BIOS is for the AIW version so it's no wonder that's what's displayed. 😁

The one from http://halentech.czweb.org/biosy/biosy_main.htm looks promising though. Or you go ahead and extract the BIOS from your existing 7500. 😉

Anyway I'm looking forward to that update! 😀

Reply 7 of 12, by Baoran

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This isn't exactly related, but I have the original first radeon 64Mb ddr card from 2000. I remember hearing long time ago that it is same as radeon 7500 and was just renamed to 7500 when they started using those model numbers. Anyone knows if this is true?
Perhaps I remember wrong and it was renamed to 7200 instead...

Reply 10 of 12, by Byrd

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Before you spend more time on this, this is a reference/OEM Apple Radeon 7500 which conforms to a non-standard AGP pinout owing to it supporting the 25V Apple Display Connector (ADC). You won't get it working on a PC without some pin modification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector

Reply 11 of 12, by Doornkaat

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Byrd wrote:

Before you spend more time on this, this is a reference/OEM Apple Radeon 7500 which conforms to a non-standard AGP pinout owing to it supporting the 25V Apple Display Connector (ADC). You won't get it working on a PC without some pin modification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector

I think you might have misread the article. The Apple Display Connector gets power through the card. The card gets the power from the small extra tab between AGP connector and slot bracket. This generates problems when using the card in another Mac. As long as you're not planning on using this feature the card will work on PC with a PC BIOS. ala_borbe has already got his card working.
There may be issues with AGP pin A3 and A11 when using this card in an AGP3.0 compliant board. Those pins are used to indicate AGP3.0 compliance but since they're probably not grounded on the card I don't think anything will happen. Still a thing to keep in mind.

Baoran wrote:

But isn't 7200 SDR card and original was DDR?

Originally the Radeon 7200 was briefly called the Rage 6, then Radeon, then Radeon 7200. The card is technically identical but there's different text on them. The original card was DDR but there are DDR versions as well as SDR of the Radeon 7200. There are no SDR versions of the Rage 6 or Radeon but DDR-SGRAM versions of both. I don't think (though I'm not sure) any Rage 6 cards have ever been sold because they changed the nomenclature before going to market so there are only evaluation samples.

Reply 12 of 12, by ala_borbe

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well, after few days, its done... well, i consider it done, with your help ofc

it works, and it works well... i think this is by far the best video quality i have ever seen... on my dell U2312HM (23.5 inch IPS panel) with vga cable... its crisp clear

after like a thousand flashes i finally found bios that works besides all-in-wonder one from techpowerup (that bios had some more unknown devices in device manager and see my monitor as non-plug-and play generic)
eventually used bios form radeon 7500 pci... its the only one that works right, although it downclocked in comparison to mine card
spec for mac are 260core / 180mem... this bios runs at 250core / 200mem and has no artifacts or any other problems... and card is not very warm after many testing with 3d mark and quake2
so i found some bios editor and added some speed to reach stock speed and i left ram as is (now its 260core / 200mem)

say what you want, this card is crazy... in quake2 opengl 1600*1200 it has 80fps... vsync-off...

3dmark score is not very special but we know that already... maybe i can overclock it more if i fit some heatsinks on ram and fan on gpu...
by the way, do you have any OC utility that works on Win98 for this card?

i dumped MAC bios with eprom programmer tool and will attach it here for sake of backup or maybe someone will try to do opposite
and here is the rest of stuff

thank you all, its been great
i hope i will be able to contribute to this wonderful forum

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