DVI and paring well with those CPUs is a challenge as DVI wasn't really a thing in P3-days, let alone in P1 days.

There are enough AGP DVI cards, but newer than period appropriate. Plus DVI+GLide=some very rare&expensive cards.

However looking at your options, I'd say:
- stick the Radeon 7000 in the P1, as it's the only DVI PCI card you have. It's fine for Win98 (but I'd call that PC to slow for Win98 games) and Win95; under DOS it works, but VESA support is patchy as usual with ATi chips.
- use the Gf4MX in the P3. It's overkill, but it'll work fine. Also excellent DOS VESA compatibility.

Given the Radeon 7000 is less than ideal you could look for a replacement, but PCI and DVI is rather niche. The commonest card, Matrox G450 PCI, has even worse DOS VESA compatibility than the Radeon. Of course, the Mac version of Voodoo4-4500 PCI had DVI and when flashed to PC BIOS has perfect DOS VESA support, but just try and find one that doesn't require a second mortgage...

dionb wrote on 2020-03-17, 23:02:

DVI and paring well with those CPUs is a challenge as DVI wasn't really a thing in P3-days, let alone in P1 days. […]
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DVI and paring well with those CPUs is a challenge as DVI wasn't really a thing in P3-days, let alone in P1 days.

There are enough AGP DVI cards, but newer than period appropriate. Plus DVI+GLide=some very rare&expensive cards.

However looking at your options, I'd say:
- stick the Radeon 7000 in the P1, as it's the only DVI PCI card you have. It's fine for Win98 (but I'd call that PC to slow for Win98 games) and Win95; under DOS it works, but VESA support is patchy as usual with ATi chips.
- use the Gf4MX in the P3. It's overkill, but it'll work fine. Also excellent DOS VESA compatibility.

Given the Radeon 7000 is less than ideal you could look for a replacement, but PCI and DVI is rather niche. The commonest card, Matrox G450 PCI, has even worse DOS VESA compatibility than the Radeon. Of course, the Mac version of Voodoo4-4500 PCI had DVI and when flashed to PC BIOS has perfect DOS VESA support, but just try and find one that doesn't require a second mortgage...

Thank you for your detailed and helpful response.

Having top notch DOS compatibility is a higher priority than DVI for DVI2HDMI conversion for capture. What non-DVI PCI card would you recommend either out of the ones I have or fairly easy to find ones?

As for the P3 which is definitely less DOS orientated and more late 90s 3D, I will put the MX440 in that machine.

Thank you kindly

Geon106 wrote on 2020-03-18, 02:23:

Thank you for your detailed and helpful response. […]
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dionb wrote on 2020-03-17, 23:02:

DVI and paring well with those CPUs is a challenge as DVI wasn't really a thing in P3-days, let alone in P1 days. […]
Show full quote

DVI and paring well with those CPUs is a challenge as DVI wasn't really a thing in P3-days, let alone in P1 days.

There are enough AGP DVI cards, but newer than period appropriate. Plus DVI+GLide=some very rare&expensive cards.

However looking at your options, I'd say:
- stick the Radeon 7000 in the P1, as it's the only DVI PCI card you have. It's fine for Win98 (but I'd call that PC to slow for Win98 games) and Win95; under DOS it works, but VESA support is patchy as usual with ATi chips.
- use the Gf4MX in the P3. It's overkill, but it'll work fine. Also excellent DOS VESA compatibility.

Given the Radeon 7000 is less than ideal you could look for a replacement, but PCI and DVI is rather niche. The commonest card, Matrox G450 PCI, has even worse DOS VESA compatibility than the Radeon. Of course, the Mac version of Voodoo4-4500 PCI had DVI and when flashed to PC BIOS has perfect DOS VESA support, but just try and find one that doesn't require a second mortgage...

Thank you for your detailed and helpful response.

Having top notch DOS compatibility is a higher priority than DVI for DVI2HDMI conversion for capture. What non-DVI PCI card would you recommend either out of the ones I have or fairly easy to find ones?

As for the P3 which is definitely less DOS orientated and more late 90s 3D, I will put the MX440 in that machine.

Thank you kindly

For DOS compatibilty that S3 Trio looks perfect. In general S3, 3dfx and nVidia (at least up to the Geforce4 series) have the best DOS VESA implementations, along with older Cirrus Logic and Ark. ATi and Matrox are decidedly inferior.

Here's a good reference:
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/
In general focus on the left-hand side of the table.

That said, this is all VESA (SVGA) stuff. There aren't actually that many VESA games out there, and plain old VGA is supported perfectly by just about everything, so don't obsess too much. It's worth trying with the Radeon 7000 and its DVI in DOS and only swapping out for the S3 Trio3D if you hit problems.

(and yes, just like with sound cards opinions can get very heated about this stuff - and just as there, the answer is to figure out what you want/need and worry about that and not some notion of pure perfection 😉 )

but VESA support is patchy as usual with ATi chips.

Radeon 7000 VESA support is fine. Maybe will require few tweaks, but that's it.

S3 Trio3D

Not very good recommendation.

The commonest card, Matrox G450 PCI, has even worse DOS VESA compatibility than the Radeon.

Matrox "problems" are overhyped too much.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-03-18, 09:16:

Radeon 7000 VESA support is fine. Maybe will require few tweaks, but that's it. […]
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but VESA support is patchy as usual with ATi chips.

Radeon 7000 VESA support is fine. Maybe will require few tweaks, but that's it.

S3 Trio3D

Not very good recommendation.

The commonest card, Matrox G450 PCI, has even worse DOS VESA compatibility than the Radeon.

Matrox "problems" are overhyped too much.

Thank you. I'll keep clear of the S3 Trio3D.

Not sure if it changes things, but just put the unlabeled card in and its a Geforce2 MX400 64MB AGP. If this card is better but lacks DVI, I'll use it and just use the S-Video out for video capture?

You'll be stuck with NTSC/PAL resolution. Signal quality is also subpar for capturing. No reason to use it, if you already have 440MX with DVI.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-03-18, 10:12:

You'll be stuck with NTSC/PAL resolution. Signal quality is also subpar for capturing. No reason to use it, if you already have 440MX with DVI.

Okay thank you.

I'll use the MX440 on the late 90s/Early 00s machine for good 3D performance whilst retaining decent DOS compatibility plus DVI output. I'll play around with nGlide too so I don't miss out by not using my Voodoo3.

The other PC I'll use the Radeon 7000 card and just try and work around any DOS issues that do crop up.

Thank you

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-03-18, 09:16:

Radeon 7000 VESA support is fine. Maybe will require few tweaks, but that's it. […]
Show full quote

but VESA support is patchy as usual with ATi chips.

Radeon 7000 VESA support is fine. Maybe will require few tweaks, but that's it.

S3 Trio3D

Not very good recommendation.

Because you say so? How about explaining why...

The only DOS VESA game it does not work properly with is Tilt! Pinball, where the Radeon messes up scrolling on various Commander Keen titles, as well as failing on Tilt! Pinball.

Also the Trio3D is still newer than the older PC, but at least from the same decade.

The only DOS VESA game it does not work properly with is Tilt! Pinball

Also it doesn't work good with Build engine games.

where the Radeon messes up scrolling on various Commander Keen titles

Which aren't VESA games to begin with.

And it's only according to that list, which is not perfect. For example, Permedia 2 has serious issues in Quake and Duke Nukem 3D, which are not mentioned there.

I have a opposite issue in my P3 pc. My Geforce 4 card only has 2 DVI connectors and no VGA at all. Not sure how much a DVI to VGA adapter reduces the quality when the signals are converted. Additional reduction when it goes from the Geforce 4 card and into voodoo 2 card with the passthrough cable.

Your Geforce4 has analog part of the DVI port, try yours with a apple DVI to VGA pigtail. I got one from ebay so plugs would not have to so extended out to stress on the connectors.

Cheers,