I do a visual inspection on a monthly basis on my car and it still needs work done. The exhaust needs patching for the time being (exhaust leak and loud noises, but the engine is quiet as a mouse) until I can buy a catalytic converter, resonator, and muffler and get them installed by a professional or my one friend.

*Free

wiretap wrote on 2020-01-24, 11:43:

I do all that myself.. I don't need the government to force me. And corrosion/rust is common, as we salt the roads in the winter. You can't find a car older than 1 year without rust on the undercarriage.

It's not about forcing anything, just a safety issue. And it's not like we have some two-party system that dictates our way of life either. Anyway, I had the misfortune of riding in a car where the front subframe collapsed because it had rusted from the upper portion inside out. No way of seeing it if you just inspect it form the bottom yourself. Besides, how many people actually do any kind of work on their cars these days? Most won't even do an oil change so they have no idea if anything actually works as it should. When it comes to rust I've seen 10 year old Audi's that have virtually nothing on them, my 15 year old ex-Volvo had only superficial rust on the back subframe. There are a lot of other models that do exhibit spots that tend to collect salt and mud that are more prone to rusting, but I'm glad I don't have to spend my time trying to figure it all out as there's someone who'll do it for me on year to year basis. And I'm not against tuning or removing mufflers or any other tinkering that has nothing to do with the cars road worthiness, it just baffles me that someone wouldn't want to have their car in the best possible condition regarding the safety and driving.

sf78 wrote on 2020-02-03, 10:56:

wiretap wrote on 2020-01-24, 11:43:

I do all that myself.. I don't need the government to force me. And corrosion/rust is common, as we salt the roads in the winter. You can't find a car older than 1 year without rust on the undercarriage.

It's not about forcing anything, just a safety issue. And it's not like we have some two-party system that dictates our way of life either. Anyway, I had the misfortune of riding in a car where the front subframe collapsed because it had rusted from the upper portion inside out. No way of seeing it if you just inspect it form the bottom yourself. Besides, how many people actually do any kind of work on their cars these days? Most won't even do an oil change so they have no idea if anything actually works as it should. When it comes to rust I've seen 10 year old Audi's that have virtually nothing on them, my 15 year old ex-Volvo had only superficial rust on the back subframe. There are a lot of other models that do exhibit spots that tend to collect salt and mud that are more prone to rusting, but I'm glad I don't have to spend my time trying to figure it all out as there's someone who'll do it for me on year to year basis. And I'm not against tuning or removing mufflers or any other tinkering that has nothing to do with the cars road worthiness, it just baffles me that someone wouldn't want to have their car in the best possible condition regarding the safety and driving.

Like I said, I do all my own work on my cars, inspect them thoroughly, own the OBDII readers for diagnosing issues, etc. I don't need anyone else to tell me what I need done with my vehicles. If I see there's a safety issue, I correct it. If that requires taking it into a shop because it is beyond my scope of repair skill, I'll do that. I deal with a lot more complicated problems on a daily basis at work, and far more critical to public safety (nuclear power). Spotting stress corrosion cracking, flow accelerated corrosion, intergranular stress cracking, galvanic corrosion, etc is all 2nd nature to me since I look for it daily. It isn't like I would get a better inspection at a dealer or inspection service center -- they only hire people that barely slept their way through high school and smoke pot on their lunch break.. I've seen it first hand.

If other people don't want to maintain their vehicles, that is up to them as well. I worked at a car dealer for my first year out of high school (2004), and I saw all sorts of cars come in daily that I wondered how they even got from point A to point B. We recommended repairs, but couldn't force them -- since that is the responsibility of the individual. If they want to drive a death trap that falls apart around them in a crash, good for them. If someone's broke ass vehicle causes damage to mine, that is on them as well. I can easily sue for $100k for a fender bender and win if I feel so inclined. Also, nothing is preventing anyone from taking their vehicle in for inspections. Pretty much every dealership I've been to already does this as part of a routine maintenance session, oil change, brake pad changes, etc.

It's interesting how you argue that the average person can't and, in fact, shouldn't be trusted with basic maintenance but yet still arrive at that conclusion.

Maybe it's worth mentioning that in Germany, inspections are performed by inspection agencies and not garages. To most people, I think, the engineers and technicians at these agencies are the imbodiment of strict and exacting professionals. It's funny, because it's so antithetical to the image of "people that barely slept their way through high school and smoke pot on their lunch break" that you conjure up.

Anway, I'm always amazed at these differences and how deeply ingrained certain cultural beliefs are. Like, otherwise I wouldn't even realise how much of my behaviour is informed by the firm belief that -- to put it very plainly -- if everybody just obey the rules, we can have a relatively safe evironment for everyone to enjoy their lives in.

henryVK wrote on 2020-02-03, 14:03:

It's interesting how you argue that the average person can't and, in fact, shouldn't be trusted with basic maintenance but yet still arrive at that conclusion.

Maybe it's worth mentioning that in Germany, inspections are performed by inspection agencies and not garages. To most people, I think, the engineers and technicians at these agencies are the imbodiment of strict and exacting professionals. It's funny, because it's so antithetical to the image of "people that barely slept their way through high school and smoke pot on their lunch break" that you conjure up.

Anway, I'm always amazed at these differences and how deeply ingrained certain cultural beliefs are. Like, otherwise I wouldn't even realise how much of my behaviour is informed by the firm belief that -- to put it very plainly -- if everybody just obey the rules, we can have a relatively safe evironment for everyone to enjoy their lives in.

I never said they shouldn't get their car inspected and/or repaired. However if they don't, that's up to them. I support maintaining equipment in proper working order, however I don't support government force to do it. If someone has an impact on another person due to negligence, they should face consequences in the court of law.

Also, I didn't just conjure up that image.. I worked at a car dealer who does these type of repairs, have family members on my wife's side of the family who work at auto repair places, and have friends who work there.. The majority of the people there have nothing but a basic education and a very high amount of the employees are alcoholics or get high every day. My own boss when I worked there totalled 3 customer cars driving drunk in them.. This is pretty common, at least in the US from every place I've bought a car or had it serviced at.

I do the same thing. Some things that require professionals, such as suspension work, I take it to the shop to get it fixed. Any other issues I come across, I do it myself. Saved a ton of money from late 2018-mid 2019 when I replaced the spark plugs, got the cooling system flushed and repaired, and some small items, like parts of the fuel system (fuel cap, EVAP canister purge valve, fuel pump pressure sensor). Hasn't stalled at all and I installed new speakers in the front of my car. 2x 60W speakers, which aren't bad at all, except the balance/fade knob keeps pulling off of my stereo. All 6 speakers work on my car (I have 2 tweeters, 2 5.25" front. and 2 6"x9" rear speakers).

wiretap wrote on 2020-02-03, 11:47:

Spotting stress corrosion cracking, flow accelerated corrosion, intergranular stress cracking, galvanic corrosion, etc is all 2nd nature to me since I look for it daily. It isn't like I would get a better inspection at a dealer or inspection service center -- they only hire people that barely slept their way through high school and smoke pot on their lunch break.. I've seen it first hand.

That does sound terrifying indeed. I assumed you needed a bachelors degree in engineering to even apply for the job, but I guess you have lower requirements for that.

One other benefit came to mind as the history of the car (failed inspections, modifications, mileage etc. ) can be traced as far back as 10 years so if you're buying a used car you can check out the information online (for a small fee) to see that the car is what it actually should be. I'm sure many other countries have similar records, but I'm not familiar with them.

I have two different vehicles since the last time I posted here ages ago with my 97 Pontiac. Guess I'll need to snap some pictures and post them when I wake up in the morning 😀
1989 Toyota Camry with now 89k miles ( 73k when I bought it) w/ 2.0 4cylinder/auto. Then I just bought my first pickup. 1985 Standard cab/long bed Ford F250 4x4 with the 6.9 IDI Diesel and Auto with a whopping 116k miles on it. Lived it's entire life from new on a farm and passed on down through the family until I got my hands on her. Bought her to haul my new 24ft travel trailer/house and to haul loads of wood and such to make money with on the side.

Coupe?

Here they are. Both old enough to be eligible for collector plates.

cars are boring....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj-Iwv5NJKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czy0pXRRZcs
i could just go out straight from my balcony

Anyone if have to, get a chrysler with 3.6L V6, late ones are pretty good and the early one had already fixed under recall is pretty good to have as well. I'm not interested in VW and Fords, too much issues. And tend to be expensive.

In 2003 thru 2011, I had Caravan Voyager 1987 with 3speed driven by 2.2L 4 cylinder topped by the carburetor (swapped for weber). Bought it for 700 CDN body was good too! Drove well for my needs even loaded down, saved lot of money doing the repairs and adjustments myself. Finally gave out from age and rust reasons and someone somehow hurt the engine at one point before acquired it and finally got too stiff in winter 2009. That starter had hard time turning fast enough to fire off effectively but will turn freely and run nicely if heated by engine's cooling heater also no problems during summer. Didn't get down to bottom of why engine is stiff if cold enough (even spring). Probably cylinder or valve stuck shut but I doubt about valves. When turned by starter, engine lurches once a revolution till finally fires off then shake badly like a steam loco with one cylinder chugging shakily, holding open throttle, about a minute later, loosens up and run like top and is fine rest of day till sat overnight if I forgot to plug heater in. I can tell the difference too much friction in one cylinder and the between and missing.

I nearly replaced 2.2L with 2.5L but couldn't:
I had trouble finding a one year only 1988 crankshaft timing belt sprocket for unique 2.5L rebuild in 2010, despite everything else is same for both 2.2/2.5 engine parts except for few parts are different and had all the parts needed. Both old crank and sprocket torsion vibrated even that bolt is properly torqued, eventually galled/eroded away due to very small diameter crank snout by design due to 5 bolts on the sprocket for pulleys and sprocket is pressed on and kept in place with a bolt and washer. Reason for choice of 1988 engine block, was tall deck meant long rod helps some with torque, 1989 and later went back to standard height for both 2.2/2.5 blocks, just the pistons, rods and cranks are different between two.

Cheers,

Pietry wrote on 2020-02-05, 12:09:

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SWEEET.. love the massive wastegate. which turbo setup is on that? what kind of power is it making?

around the usa in 46 days
https://insideevs.com/news/404931/porsche-tay … urbo-road-trip/

1988 Pontiac Fiero, metallic red, 4-cylinder coupe (base model). Runs fine, got it a bit shy of 70k miles in 2014, not rear-ended in mid 2015 and has since become an ongoing drivable, but-not-pretty project car. The paint was initially in nice shape, but the upper surfaces (mostly on the fiberglass roof, hood, and decklid, not the softer plastic pieces) had the clearcoat start to degrade/oxidize and flake off somewhere in 2016/2017. (left uncovered and unwaxed in Santa Clara valley summer sun, street-parked without shade for 2+ years, which I regret, though we were going through some other, distracting hardships at home at the time)

I've also been driving a 2012 Mustang GT 5.0L VGA that a friend more or less gifted my dad (sold for peanuts), since Dad passed away last year, but I honestly like the fiero more ... and it gets way better gas milage, though not as good as it probably should. (really should do 30+ MPG combined, and I've seen fuel-economy fiero geeks/freaks that squeeze out better than 40 MPG highway in the 4 cylinder model) That and I'm spoiled by the handling and turning radius in the fiero, and the unusual low viewing angle/high visibility ... and suck at parking that Mustang. (technically the rear-side view isn't great in the Fiero, but it's good compared to typical modern cars with thick/high side pillars anyway, which is what the Fiero has too for the excessive-for-the-time rollover specs ... or more realistically: stuff-falling on the roof, give rolling a fiero is pretty much impossible, short of falling off a hill/cliffside)

I don't mind the manual steering at all, either ... not as nice as normal hydraulics, but I'd take it over any drive-by-wire steering I've tried. (the mechanical throttle linkage is a lot nicer than modern things too ... actually more important than the steering: trying to take my driver's test in a borrowed, newer car really screwed me up; I'd learned in my Mom's '95 or '96 volvo station wagon ... which also spoiled me with good rear vision)
Oh, and both the Mustang and Fiero are manuals. (and the auto-4 Fiero is a dog, the manual at least lets you really get that low-end torque the Duke is unusually good for, for an underpowered 4-cylinder)

I originally had a 1985SE 4 cylinder sunroof model with sheepskin seats that had degraded to all hell from sun damage. I'd gotten it for something like $300 from our neighbor (which my parents had sold it to back around 1994 in the first place) and it was run hard, but no crash damage, just over 200k miles, very dirty engine compartment, very corroded battery tray area, and then (possible) overheating damage from Dad and I misdiagnosing a bad alternator as just worn out belts, dead battery, and a bad thermostat. (alternator worked, but was failing in an unuaul mode, but put way too much load on the belts at high RPM, and the same belt drives the water pump, so belt slippage was causing insufficient water flow, overheating, and severe overheating after we drove it with the new belt snapped)

Or Dad drove it. I didn't have my permit at the time. We fixed those problems, but the clutch arm eventually failed, and after replacing it, we couldn't get the clutch hydraulics working again. (after a flush, bleed, slave cylinder swap) ... between that, the degraded cosmetic condition, continual oil leak problems (even after a valve cover gasket replacement), complete lack of door keys (original had broken and an incompetent 'locksmith' had crudely drilled out the trunk lock for $50 at that neighbor's expense prior to me buying it: dead battery made the solenoid latch inoperable ... we could've done a much better job for free, too)

Had I known a bit more about working on the car back then, I might have kept it, but Dad was burned out at the time and it sat for about a year before we sold it to pick n' pull. (new tires too ... though they'd sat outside for over a year, but we'd just put them on before the clutch went)

I put a stupid amount of work replacing that battery tray, too ... so much spot weld drilling and hole-matching and riveting. (though I probably should've used sheet metal screws instead of pop rivets for potential maintenance: they were nice, stainless steel rivets, though)

Also very minimal frame rust/corrosion damage, but we're in Northern California and not on the waterfront, so no salted roads or salt air to deal with. (they keep a lot better here, and that heavy, painted, galvanized steel spaceframe holds up pretty well ... also doesn't have the moisture-wicking and festering rust bubble issues that the Delorean's epoxied frame does or the fiberglass monocue/frame weirdness to deal with ... or low production numbers ... and the mostly-interchangeable GM parts bin and aftermarket support is nice: though the '88 does have the unique front suspension and hubs with limited availability, but that was a bigger issue for Dad when he was racing his '88 GT: the original front hubs were great, but after GM stopped making them, the choice of used original ones vs questionable aftermarket ones was problematic: for road driving it's a non-issue, but he went through those things on a regular basis running PB and later ITA in the SCCA)

Also, on shops vs DIY stuff, it's a mixed bag both ways, especially for older and/or exotic cars. A lot of shops won't even service the things, and if they do, they might not have the right resources to do it (and I mean literature). Having professional service manuals available is important, often beyond the more available retail-user available maintenance manuals, and you often need year-specific volumes to get things 100% right.

Getting help from online forums/communities is useful too, and was probably the big area that could've saved my '88 (I was active in aircraft history forums at the time, but for some reason didn't think to ask for help on that car, probably because I assumed Dad knew everything we needed to know; in hindsight not so much, especially given he'd done a lot more torture testing on the V6 '88, and not so much with the '85 Iron duke, plus some variation in the transmissions there; plus minor electrical system niggles showed up and also weren't racing-tech relevant as he'd stripped nearly all of that out)

Anyway, the best advice I can give on maintenance is: do as much diagnostic work and research as you're capable of yourself, and as much work as you can reasonably/safely do as well, BUT:
When it comes to needing to use a shop (for routine or specialized work or diagnostics), you pretty much need to build a solid customer relationship with a shop you know is competent and with people you trust. Beyond that you're likely to get screw ups regardless of the cost involved.

Being anti-social and not good at business negotiation can be a real problem there. That goes for generic chain/franchise garages/shops, independent small businesses, or specialty shops. The changes in the service industry (and trend to buy new, upgrade more often, not buy used, etc) over several decades didn't help either, for both cost and competence/versatility, but it's not hopless. (not to get into a bigger philosophical or political debate there).

Plus, if you're really confidence you've diagnosed the problem and want it fixed, and a competent-but-stubborn mechanic insists it's something else, you can try negotiating around that ... or making a bet/deal. Dad did that at least once, successfully and ended up with a free repair job out of it. (transmission flex plate had gone bad or cracked in our '95 Caprice wagon, Dad got it right, the guy insisted he was wrong, so made a bet he'd fix it for free if Dad was right ... and Dad was)

Dad was good at that sort of thing, though, and got better service or deals by working around problematic IT or service reps for tech stuff, too (including rather elaborate progression to higher manangement tiers and departments to get someone who actually could deal with the problem: be it hardware or software related, or related to our internet speed/performance, or upgrade pricing ... especially since we use a 3rd party ISP)

But here's a pic of my car from the undamaged angle when we had a freak hailstorm in Jan 2016, plus some rear-end damage sadness. (it looked worse now as Dad and I pulled off the bumper cover to finally straighten things out, and I haven't righted or replaced or jury-rigged the bent mounting points to get the cover back on yet ... and Dad went to far pulling the trunk lip/latch area back out and the decklid on't engage, so it's got bungy cords latching it right now ... but it works, and that's at least handy for over-stuffing that trunk, albeit the luggage rack on my '85 was kinda nice for that)

Err, actually all the rear-end shots I have show the license plate, so here's just one showing the trunk in the aftermath. (luckily it was mostly empty, though my multimeter somehow managed to get one of the lead's plugs mangled/snapped)

And no damage to the suspension or engine compartment thanks to the bumper + trunk both providing a ton of shock absorbsion and crumple zone space. (and no passenger injuries, either ... we had our seatbelts properly adjusted and those seats have pretty decent head/neck and spine support, even for tall people: you do basically sit on the floor, though ... but better than a lot of small cars)

Oh! And at least the pointiac logo/badge on the notchback sides are still intact and properly reflective. Those often degrade and flake off or get cracked. (my '85 had one badly broken open and the other faded to near opaque ... it had a nice, solid metal hood bage/emblem though, which I have around somewhere)

Good looking car.

Sorry for the quality of the pic, this is from when I got my current car - August 2014, a 2014/2015 Ford New Fiesta 1.4.

Currently it has 50.000km and a lot of things to fix (new tyres, new rims, new battery, some very tiny chassis fixes/repaint needed). I guess I really destroy my cars little by little...

(and yes, I regret buying a white car).

Since my old images are gone (I have it on server without SSL), I'm re-uploading my car.

This is my daily driver/family/only car 😁

2003 Toyota Corolla TS hatchback, in USA known under XRS badge (though in USA it was only available in sedan form).