I guess the SEGA2.

The scaling of voodoo 2 sli on that platform won't be particularly amazing. For the games that won't run at 60fps on a single voodoo2, you are likely to run into a CPU bottleneck anyway. Half-life, unreal, quake III, ect are going to be CPU bound at around 25-45 fps, which a single voodoo2 can do at 800x600 pretty comfortably.

I am not sure what your budget is, but a faster PIII would help you get the most out of your cards, and a full atx board would solve your expansion problem too.

Durandal wrote:

Hey all, I'm in the process of building a late 90's rig for the first time (AMD K6-2 550) and have hit a snag: I'm running out […]
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Hey all, I'm in the process of building a late 90's rig for the first time (AMD K6-2 550) and have hit a snag: I'm running out of expansion slots. The motherboard I'm using is a freebie Jetway 530BF that has 3 PCI and 2 ISA slots, however one of the PCI and ISA slots share the same bracket. This means that I can't use all of these cards at the same time:

- S3 VGA (PCI)
- 8MB Voodoo 2 (PCI)
- 8MB Voodoo 2 (PCI)
- AWE64 (ISA)
- Sega IF-SEGA2/ISA (Sega Saturn gamepad card)

I really don't want to sacrifice one of the Voodoos or the Sega card, so that leaves me with taking out either the S3 or AWE64. The motherboard has built-in sound and VGA but neither are ideal... sound is a CMI 8738 and the VGA chipset is an SiS 6326. From what I can gather the 6326 is miserable at 3D but might be okay for 2D, and the CMI 8738 seems to be okay but might struggle with some DOS games in terms of SB16 compatibility.

I managed to finagle the Wayback Machine into spitting out the original 530BF driver files for Win98SE so I should be able to use both just fine, but to even test them properly I'd need to spend about $40 on breakout bracket-mounted ports for VGA and MIDI/Gameport (I'm planning to use my Roland SC-55) so I thought I would ask around about how good/bad the 530BF's in-built features are before buying anything.

Tl;dr, which card should I take out in favor of the motherboard's built-in feature: the S3 or the AWE64?

Integrated 6326 !=standalone 6326 😮

The 6323 is a mediocre video card, but good enough for 2D. The problem here is memory bandwidth. A dedicated 6326 has its own memory and its own bus to the memory. When the 6326 core is integrated into the chipset, as is the case with this SiS 530 chipset, the CPU and VGA share memory bandwidth. Advanced chipsets can do that dynamically, but these old SiS chipsets are blunt: half the memory bandwidth goes to CPU, half to VGA. That means that your K6-2 will behave as if paired with a 32b 486 memory bus. That will result in 50% lower memory bandwidth, which (depending on application) will lose you 25-45% of overall performance. So using the integrated VGA instead of that S3 will kill performance across the board, regardless of the individual merits of the 6326 core, and will affect you just as much using the Voodoos as in 2D.

So leave that S3 card in whatever you do!

As for sound, that's another story, particularly if you want to use an SC-55, so you don't even need the EMU8k on the AWE for MIDI. First off, are you sure it's a CMI8378? Googling the Jetway 530BF I read it has an ESS Solo-1 chip instead. That would be good news, as the Solo-1 is one of the most DOS-friendly PCI chips out there. The AWE64 doesn't have a real OPL3, so the fact the CMI8378 or Solo-1 doesn't either is hardly a show-stopper. Only advantages of the AWE64 are that it doesn't need (TSR) drivers for basic DOS SB functionality and that it supports SB16 (but not SBPro2). Conversely, the Solo-1 has less MIDI issues (MPU stuttering) and does support SBPro2. Tbh, combining both would be best, so you get both AWE and SC55 MIDI, and both SB16 and SBPro2 - but if you need that slot, and really want both Voodoos, I'd ditch the AWE64.

Get rid of that Sega IF-SEGA2/ISA card, it makes no sense. If you *really* need/want to use Saturn gamepads, there are USB adapters for those. But there are much better native solutions anyway (the Gravis GamePad Pro is my favorite).

mothergoose729 wrote:

I guess the SEGA2.

The scaling of voodoo 2 sli on that platform won't be particularly amazing. For the games that won't run at 60fps on a single voodoo2, you are likely to run into a CPU bottleneck anyway. Half-life, unreal, quake III, ect are going to be CPU bound at around 25-45 fps, which a single voodoo2 can do at 800x600 pretty comfortably.

I am not sure what your budget is, but a faster PIII would help you get the most out of your cards, and a full atx board would solve your expansion problem too.

I see... a single Voodoo 2 seems like the way to go for this build then, as Half Life is really pushing the upper limits of what I'm intending to play on it. Thanks for the advice.

dionb wrote:

Integrated 6326 !=standalone 6326 :o […]
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Integrated 6326 !=standalone 6326 😮

The 6323 is a mediocre video card, but good enough for 2D. The problem here is memory bandwidth. A dedicated 6326 has its own memory and its own bus to the memory. When the 6326 core is integrated into the chipset, as is the case with this SiS 530 chipset, the CPU and VGA share memory bandwidth. Advanced chipsets can do that dynamically, but these old SiS chipsets are blunt: half the memory bandwidth goes to CPU, half to VGA. That means that your K6-2 will behave as if paired with a 32b 486 memory bus. That will result in 50% lower memory bandwidth, which (depending on application) will lose you 25-45% of overall performance. So using the integrated VGA instead of that S3 will kill performance across the board, regardless of the individual merits of the 6326 core, and will affect you just as much using the Voodoos as in 2D.

So leave that S3 card in whatever you do!

As for sound, that's another story, particularly if you want to use an SC-55, so you don't even need the EMU8k on the AWE for MIDI. First off, are you sure it's a CMI8378? Googling the Jetway 530BF I read it has an ESS Solo-1 chip instead. That would be good news, as the Solo-1 is one of the most DOS-friendly PCI chips out there. The AWE64 doesn't have a real OPL3, so the fact the CMI8378 or Solo-1 doesn't either is hardly a show-stopper. Only advantages of the AWE64 are that it doesn't need (TSR) drivers for basic DOS SB functionality and that it supports SB16 (but not SBPro2). Conversely, the Solo-1 has less MIDI issues (MPU stuttering) and does support SBPro2. Tbh, combining both would be best, so you get both AWE and SC55 MIDI, and both SB16 and SBPro2 - but if you need that slot, and really want both Voodoos, I'd ditch the AWE64.

Huh, you're totally right, I don't know where I read that it has a CMI8378 now that you mention it. Even the old Jetway site on the Wayback Machine says it has a Solo-1, I must have gotten it confused with other motherboards I was looking at last night! 😵 If I don't get the performance I'm looking for in newer games like Half Life with only a single Voodoo 2 and decide to go back to the original SLI plan, then I'll remove the AWE64, thanks for your advice. The hardest part is going to be finding the cable + bracket thingo for the back of the case for a sane price.

$18.52 AUD + $24.21 AUD shipping is a bit steep, but I'm struggling to come up with keywords to even search for this - any ideas? It has to have these 2 separate plugs, MIDI port has 16 pins and the audio jack part has 10 pins. Another option is making one myself, but that would be a pain and wouldn't look as good as a proper one.

derSammler wrote:

Get rid of that Sega IF-SEGA2/ISA card, it makes no sense. If you *really* need/want to use Saturn gamepads, there are USB adapters for those. But there are much better native solutions anyway (the Gravis GamePad Pro is my favorite).

As stated in the original post, that isn't an option. 😀

I ended up switching to a different motherboard after scoring a second 8MB Voodoo 2, this board has a 600MHz Pentium 3 which seems better suited to a 16MB SLI setup. Here are the cards I settled on:

- S3 PCI (can't remember exactly what the card is)
- 2 x Diamond Monster 3D II - 8MB 3DFX Voodoo 2s
- Audigy 2 PCI
- IF-SEGA2/ISA - Sega Saturn gamepad ISA card, with lightgun VGA passthrough

The AWE64 turned out to be a budget release with less RAM meaning it would throw up errors about not being able to load MIDI libraries on boot, so I swapped it out for an Audigy 2 that I found in a Dell Dimension P4 on the side of the road. I'm considering putting my SB16 CT2230 in its place just to have a real OPL3 for DOS games, and since the board has 2 ISA slots I can still fit the IF-SEGA2/ISA Saturn controller card. However if there ends up being enough space on my vintage PC desk, I'd rather have a separate 486DX2 66MHz machine for those games.

For a DOS/Win98 build that thing sounds good - Voodoos for 3D and Audigy 2 for EAX under Windows. CT2230 is one of the better SB16 cards, so that would make sense for both OPL3 and general DOS SB16. Only issue is your SC-55 - that SB16 is full of MIDI bugs. For that the AWE64 would be better.

dionb wrote on 2020-04-15, 23:26:

For a DOS/Win98 build that thing sounds good - Voodoos for 3D and Audigy 2 for EAX under Windows. CT2230 is one of the better SB16 cards, so that would make sense for both OPL3 and general DOS SB16. Only issue is your SC-55 - that SB16 is full of MIDI bugs. For that the AWE64 would be better.

MIDI bugs like what? I've been using the card for years and the only weird thing I've noticed is that sometimes a note will randomly hang, but if I recall correctly it goes away when that note is eventually hit again, it clearly doesn't really bother me or else I'd remember the problem better. 😜

I have an Aztech card with an OPL3 on it that I was going to try, but I'm not sure if it's an SB16 clone or what, never used it before. I also have an AWE32 that a friend gave me with a bunch of crushed capacitors that I haven't gotten around to replacing yet. I know nothing about the AWE32, does it sound like an SB16?

Durandal wrote on 2020-04-17, 04:39:

[...]

MIDI bugs like what? I've been using the card for years and the only weird thing I've noticed is that sometimes a note will randomly hang, but if I recall correctly it goes away when that note is eventually hit again, it clearly doesn't really bother me or else I'd remember the problem better. 😜

Yep, that's the hanging note bug, type 2. How irritating it is, is subjective. It's less awful than type 1, which the CT2230 fortunately doens't have.

I have an Aztech card with an OPL3 on it that I was going to try, but I'm not sure if it's an SB16 clone or what, never used it before.

Exactly what it is depends on version, but at the very least it's a good Soundblaster Pro 2 (not 16) clone. Many Aztech cards also support WSS for 16b sound. They also have bug-free MIDI. Some early cards like the NXPro don't have MPU-401 MIDI but do support Covox and Disney Sound System. In general Aztech cards are very quiet (non-noisy and pretty immune to other system noise), with the exception of those early NX Pros (quiet of themselves, but pick up other noises badly) and very late low-end triangular PCB designs.

Of course with two ISA slots you can get the best of both worlds: as the SB16 isn't fully SBPro2 compatible, use the Aztech for SBPro2, WSS and MIDI and use the SB16 (or AWE32) for SB16. Of course that means giving up the Sega stuff. Personally I'd just use regular game port gamepads if you want them, but if you're attached to the Sega stuff that's not an option of course. Personally I'd choose a good Aztech 2316-based card over an SB16 any day, but as we don't know which Aztech it is it's too soon to say anything like that.

I also have an AWE32 that a friend gave me with a bunch of crushed capacitors that I haven't gotten around to replacing yet. I know nothing about the AWE32, does it sound like an SB16?

AWE32=SB16+EMU8k MIDI device, so yes, this could replace the SB16 after fixing. Note however that there are several different versions of AWE32, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. The CT2760 is very similar to you CT2230, later ones might have no Wavetable header, a different DSP (with type 1 hanging notes too..) and/or CQM instead of OPL3. If it's one of those, on paper it's less attractive than what you have - but a broken card you fixed yourself always is a big plus 😉