So there are two separate sound cards each with an active game port in your machine and both live on address 200-207 then? You may want to disable one of them.

How fast is the CPU? The Sidewinder controllers fail to work if the CPU is too fast. I have them working on a P3 750 MHz, which is - according to the experience of some people - near the limit. That is due to the way they use the game port for digital communication, which is no longer reliable on fast systems.

evasive wrote on 2020-05-20, 13:53:

So there are two separate sound cards each with an active game port in your machine and both live on address 200-207 then? You may want to disable one of them.

There are, but I have not added the SB16 to Windows, only use that when rebooting to DOS. Both of those devices showed up after installing the Audigy drivers.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-20, 13:56:

How fast is the CPU? The Sidewinder controllers fail to work if the CPU is too fast. I have them working on a P3 750 MHz, which is - according to the experience of some people - near the limit. That is due to the way they use the game port for digital communication, which is no longer reliable on fast systems.

I am running a P2 350 at the moment. I am hunting down one that has an unlocked multiplier, this one is locked. But I could drop the FSB to run it at 233 and test...

P2 350 is certainly fine.

SuperSirLink wrote on 2020-05-20, 14:01:

evasive wrote on 2020-05-20, 13:53:

So there are two separate sound cards each with an active game port in your machine and both live on address 200-207 then? You may want to disable one of them.

There are, but I have not added the SB16 to Windows, only use that when rebooting to DOS. Both of those devices showed up after installing the Audigy drivers.

Unless you disable things at a hardware level that stuff will still be visible and communicating at that port address, driver or not. You have to either disable one or set it to a different port address.

evasive wrote on 2020-05-20, 14:10:

SuperSirLink wrote on 2020-05-20, 14:01:

evasive wrote on 2020-05-20, 13:53:

So there are two separate sound cards each with an active game port in your machine and both live on address 200-207 then? You may want to disable one of them.

There are, but I have not added the SB16 to Windows, only use that when rebooting to DOS. Both of those devices showed up after installing the Audigy drivers.

Unless you disable things at a hardware level that stuff will still be visible and communicating at that port address, driver or not. You have to either disable one or set it to a different port address.

The SB16 is not a plug and play card and I don't think there is a jumper for the game port address, just to enable or disable it. I want that game port to be used in DOS. The memory address Windows assigned to the Audigy game port is 1000-1007. It assigned 0200-0207 to the Creative Joystick Emulation, it will not let me change that address space.

I just pulled the SB16 out completely, and the game pad still shows not connected. How can I determine if there are DOS compatible drivers that it installed for the Audigy? I don't understand why there is a "joystick emulation" device in hardware manager.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-20, 13:56:

How fast is the CPU? The Sidewinder controllers fail to work if the CPU is too fast. I have them working on a P3 750 MHz, which is - according to the experience of some people - near the limit. That is due to the way they use the game port for digital communication, which is no longer reliable on fast systems.

I used to use a Sidewinder controller on a C2D system. a fast CPU is not the problem.
I suspect its ether a resource conflict or driver problem.

That's why I wrote "according to the experience of some people". Most people tell it stops working at an FSB of 100 MHz, which is certainly not true, however (my P3 is using 100 MHz FSB as well). But they *are* speed-sensitive, it's just still unclear how and to which extent.

Note that this applies to those using the game port in digital mode only. Those using MIDI (Force Feedback Pro and the FF Wheel) or USB are not affected by system speed at all.

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-20, 15:20:

That's why I wrote "according to the experience of some people". Most people tell it stops working at an FSB of 100 MHz, which is certainly not true, however (my P3 is using 100 MHz FSB as well). But they *are* speed-sensitive, it's just still unclear how and to which extent.

Note that this applies to those using the game port in digital mode only. Those using MIDI (Force Feedback Pro and the FF Wheel) or USB are not affected by system speed at all.

Hey at this point I will try anything. I will drop the FSB to 66 and see what happens.

Sure, can't hurt.

Sadly running at 66Mhz FSB had no impact...

Did the midi game port cable get plugged in the right way on the Audigy ? or is it a Audigy se with the game port on the card?
Try removing the Audigy or SB16 and trying again. also try Sidewinder Freestyle drovers and not the Sidewinder game pad drivers.

There is a power light on the Freestyle that comes on. The connector is keyed I believe, but will double check...

Its not listed, maybe that is the problem. But I didn't find any drivers specially for the Freestyle.

Ah, wait. But you did install the Sidewinder Software 3.x, didn't you? It will not work without it, as it has no fallback mode to work as an ordinary analog joystick/-pad (unlike the Sidewinder 3D and the Gamepad). It will also not work in DOS because of this.

I installed this, but then removed it when I saw it was only putting the wheel software on it.
http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?file … menustate=25,24

I have an older basic 15 pin gamepad I can dig out and try too...

derSammler wrote on 2020-05-20, 18:42:

Ah, wait. But you did install the Sidewinder Software 3.x, didn't you? It will not work without it, as it has no fallback mode to work as an ordinary analog joystick/-pad (unlike the Sidewinder 3D and the Gamepad). It will also not work in DOS because of this.

The Sidewinder Freestyle works perfectly in DOS, been using it for years.

In plain DOS, not in a DOS session within Windows? How did you manage to do that? I sold both of my Freestyles long time ago because they were not usable in DOS. Games either detected no joystick at all, or it would not calibrate, since it was stuck in digital mode.

I had the later one that came with the USB adapter, however. Could be that the earlier ones had a fallback mode, which was removed later to allow USB as an alternative. I think they did that with the Precision Pro as well.

SuperSirLink wrote on 2020-05-20, 19:30:

I installed this, but then removed it when I saw it was only putting the wheel software on it.
http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?file … menustate=25,24

You need the software due to the digital nature of the controller. You can not select some other Sidewinder controller, since it will query its ID and since it doesn't match, it can never be connected. Get the Sidewinder Software 3.0 and install it.

In plain DOS, yes, with the Freestyle in analog mode, games just go through the usual joystick calibration routine.
I played old flight sims with it, like Wings of Glory, Xwing and Tie Fighter Dos collectors editions, racing games like Indycar, stuff like that.

I think there was only one version, mine has the usb adapter too, and i pretty much bought it soon after it was released.