VOGONS


First post, by Mentalbass

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Hello,

I'm playing Unreal tournament GOTY edition.
Using a hp vectra vei8, p3 500mhz, 256mb ram and win98SE. And runs farely good on 1024x768 owith a Diamond viper v550 PCI graphics card. It has no AGP Slot.
I did expect it to run great but at these settings framerate is still sort-a-fluid. Even turned colour depth to 16bit.
Were my expectations overrated or is it the game that draws to much resources whatever is thrown at it?

I'd like to know if it would run better on the monster 3dfx 2 voodoo card?

Or is there a tweak in the unreal ini-file to crank out some extra speed?

Thanks

Rise of the Triad

Reply 2 of 32, by Mentalbass

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-26, 21:21:

Why not try it and see? The whole point of the Voodoo2 is you can run it alongside other 2d/3d cards.

So i can leave the viper in, connect it to the voodoo?
How do you do this driver-wise, installing it?

Rise of the Triad

Reply 3 of 32, by kolderman

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Mentalbass wrote on 2020-05-26, 21:33:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-26, 21:21:

Why not try it and see? The whole point of the Voodoo2 is you can run it alongside other 2d/3d cards.

So i can leave the viper in, connect it to the voodoo?
How do you do this driver-wise, installing it?

Replace *can* with *must* and you are getting closer. Do you have a pass through cable? As you will need that no matter what. You will probably find what you need here: http://vogonsdrivers.com/index.php?catid=12

Reply 4 of 32, by Garrett W

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UE1 and especially Unreal and UT are notoriously bad when using the original D3D and OpenGL renderers. Weird performance hiccups, apparently some features missing. Overall, on period correct hardware, Glide performs a lot better as the engine was written with that in mind alongside software rendering.
On top of that, the Viper 550 is a plain TNT, effectively competing with a single Voodoo2, but you are trying to run it at 1024x768 as far as I can tell which won't help, the card just doesn't have enough fillrate to pull that off and 16MB is probably pushing it for that res as well. 640x480 should give you a lot nicer performance. Your Voodoo2 is unfortunately just an 8MB model, which might actually perform worse due to stuttering. I would lower the texture quality when using that card.
But even if you had a faster card, your CPU would be holding you back. Unfortunately, these games were very CPU limited and some maps that have more players will chug hard on Unreal Tournament. Not a very fun experience for fast paced FPS game.

My suggestion? Forget about playing it on this PC unless you want to mess around for fun and instead, download UTGLR which is an alternative OpenGL renderer for UT and play it on modern systems.

Reply 5 of 32, by Mentalbass

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-26, 21:41:
Mentalbass wrote on 2020-05-26, 21:33:
kolderman wrote on 2020-05-26, 21:21:

Why not try it and see? The whole point of the Voodoo2 is you can run it alongside other 2d/3d cards.

So i can leave the viper in, connect it to the voodoo?
How do you do this driver-wise, installing it?

Replace *can* with *must* and you are getting closer. Do you have a pass through cable? As you will need that no matter what. You will probably find what you need here: http://vogonsdrivers.com/index.php?catid=12

Superb! 👍

Rise of the Triad

Reply 6 of 32, by Mentalbass

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Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-26, 23:22:
UE1 and especially Unreal and UT are notoriously bad when using the original D3D and OpenGL renderers. Weird performance hiccups […]
Show full quote

UE1 and especially Unreal and UT are notoriously bad when using the original D3D and OpenGL renderers. Weird performance hiccups, apparently some features missing. Overall, on period correct hardware, Glide performs a lot better as the engine was written with that in mind alongside software rendering.
On top of that, the Viper 550 is a plain TNT, effectively competing with a single Voodoo2, but you are trying to run it at 1024x768 as far as I can tell which won't help, the card just doesn't have enough fillrate to pull that off and 16MB is probably pushing it for that res as well. 640x480 should give you a lot nicer performance. Your Voodoo2 is unfortunately just an 8MB model, which might actually perform worse due to stuttering. I would lower the texture quality when using that card.
But even if you had a faster card, your CPU would be holding you back. Unfortunately, these games were very CPU limited and some maps that have more players will chug hard on Unreal Tournament. Not a very fun experience for fast paced FPS game.

My suggestion? Forget about playing it on this PC unless you want to mess around for fun and instead, download UTGLR which is an alternative OpenGL renderer for UT and play it on modern systems.

Thanks for the explanation. It does run great on 800x600 res with all settings high and 32bit.
So i have the passthru cable and connecting the cards together is an option? Will it result in better quality overall?

Rise of the Triad

Reply 7 of 32, by aha2940

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Mentalbass wrote on 2020-05-27, 01:32:
Garrett W wrote on 2020-05-26, 23:22:
UE1 and especially Unreal and UT are notoriously bad when using the original D3D and OpenGL renderers. Weird performance hiccups […]
Show full quote

UE1 and especially Unreal and UT are notoriously bad when using the original D3D and OpenGL renderers. Weird performance hiccups, apparently some features missing. Overall, on period correct hardware, Glide performs a lot better as the engine was written with that in mind alongside software rendering.
On top of that, the Viper 550 is a plain TNT, effectively competing with a single Voodoo2, but you are trying to run it at 1024x768 as far as I can tell which won't help, the card just doesn't have enough fillrate to pull that off and 16MB is probably pushing it for that res as well. 640x480 should give you a lot nicer performance. Your Voodoo2 is unfortunately just an 8MB model, which might actually perform worse due to stuttering. I would lower the texture quality when using that card.
But even if you had a faster card, your CPU would be holding you back. Unfortunately, these games were very CPU limited and some maps that have more players will chug hard on Unreal Tournament. Not a very fun experience for fast paced FPS game.

My suggestion? Forget about playing it on this PC unless you want to mess around for fun and instead, download UTGLR which is an alternative OpenGL renderer for UT and play it on modern systems.

Thanks for the explanation. It does run great on 800x600 res with all settings high and 32bit.
So i have the passthru cable and connecting the cards together is an option? Will it result in better quality overall?

Connecting the cards together will not make them work in tandem. You eother use the Viper or the voodoo card for the game, can't use both. Just install the voodoo, configure it and see for yourself.

Reply 8 of 32, by Mentalbass

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Thanks for all info on this. I've been reading other posts on this subsject and they all having one thing in common: agree to disagree 😀

My questions would be:
1. Do i leave the viper next to the monster 3d 2 card with a passcable. If so, do i need to uninstall the viper first...... install wise in 98 how would you do this because its configured with the diamond viper?

2. Can i run the pc with only the monster 3d 2 card? Thats were others differ' in opinion. Can it?

Sincerely thanks.

And yes its frustrating to get it working.
And yes its fantastisc that its frustrating getting over 20 years stuff working nowadays.... thinking: how did i do it back then...

Rise of the Triad

Reply 9 of 32, by kolderman

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1. Just put it in next to the viper, and leave the viper drivers alone. Then install the voodoo drivers. They work side by side.

2. No. It's not a video card. Bios will not recognize a display device and neither will win98.

It should not be that hard to get working.

Reply 10 of 32, by Mentalbass

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-27, 06:59:

1. Just put it in next to the viper, and leave the viper drivers alone. Then install the voodoo drivers. They work side by side.

2. No. It's not a video card. Bios will not recognize a display device and neither will win98.

It should not be that hard to get working.

Many thanks !

Rise of the Triad

Reply 11 of 32, by zyga64

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Your Vectra VEi8 has probably onboard Matrox G200, so..
Yes you can remove PCI Viper 550 and connect Voodoo passthrough cable to Matrox.

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 12 of 32, by Mentalbass

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zyga64 wrote on 2020-05-27, 07:58:

Your Vectra VEi8 has probably onboard Matrox G200, so..
Yes you can remove PCI Viper 550 and connect Voodoo passthrough cable to Matrox.

Or leave the viper and passthrough it?
I dont use the onboard matrox g200.

Rise of the Triad

Reply 13 of 32, by zyga64

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Mentalbass wrote on 2020-05-27, 09:09:

Or leave the viper and passthrough it?
I dont use the onboard matrox g200.

As you wish 😀
Riva TNT is faster than G200 but both are from 1998. So comparison would be interesting.
Moreover TNT is connected through PCI vs G200 AGP.

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 14 of 32, by Mentalbass

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zyga64 wrote on 2020-05-27, 13:03:
As you wish :) Riva TNT is faster than G200 but both are from 1998. So comparison would be interesting. Moreover TNT is connect […]
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Mentalbass wrote on 2020-05-27, 09:09:

Or leave the viper and passthrough it?
I dont use the onboard matrox g200.

As you wish 😀
Riva TNT is faster than G200 but both are from 1998. So comparison would be interesting.
Moreover TNT is connected through PCI vs G200 AGP.

Yes indeed.
I ran pc on g200 matrox and quake 2 ran good. It has 8mb ram. But in Unreal Tournament things wend sour right away.... slow performance even on lower settings beyond 800x600 res.
Than i got the viper 550 16mb PCI in and suberp Quake 2 gameplay. Unreal tournament can be played on 1024x768 but its a little lagging..... doesnt feel fluid.... so 800x600 runs perfect.

One last thing, i have one PCI slot left for the monster 3d ii card. Is that a problem? Does it need to sit just next the Viper?

Rise of the Triad

Reply 15 of 32, by derSammler

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It doesn't matter which PCI slot you use.

But one thing, since you always talk about running UT in 1024x768: a single Voodoo2 will only do 800x600, unless you disable z-buffering, which you probably don't want to do. You could remove the Viper and add a second Voodoo2 card using SLI. In that case, both cards will work together and apart from almost twice the speed, you also get 1024x768 with z-buffering. You would then use the G200 for the rest.

Reply 16 of 32, by Mentalbass

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derSammler wrote on 2020-05-27, 14:51:

It doesn't matter which PCI slot you use.

But one thing, since you always talk about running UT in 1024x768: a single Voodoo2 will only do 800x600, unless you disable z-buffering, which you probably don't want to do. You could remove the Viper and add a second Voodoo2 card using SLI. In that case, both cards will work together and apart from almost twice the speed, you also get 1024x768 with z-buffering. You would then use the G200 for the rest.

I payed a fortune just for this card 😀
SLI is good but I'll just stick with the 800x600 setup.
Viper and voodoo2 together.
Its great to see old stuff re-appear.....not the costs btw.
And the knowledge here is invaluable!

Thanks all!

Rise of the Triad

Reply 17 of 32, by matze79

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I also run Viper 550 TNT1 16Mb, which games did you run ?

i run the Card inside PII 333Mhz and can play Quake 2 on 1280x1024.
But i did not try Unreal yet.

The V2 can not view that Resolution 😀

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 18 of 32, by Mentalbass

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matze79 wrote on 2020-05-27, 19:27:
I also run Viper 550 TNT1 16Mb, which games did you run ? […]
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I also run Viper 550 TNT1 16Mb, which games did you run ?

i run the Card inside PII 333Mhz and can play Quake 2 on 1280x1024.
But i did not try Unreal yet.

The V2 can not view that Resolution 😀

Yeah the quake 2 runs great at high res, easily 1024x768. Blood2, Hexen2, Driver all run good. There isn't a game, say 1997-2000 that doesn't run good..... except Unreal Tournament sucks up resources like no tomorrow. At 800x600 16bit its quick enough on the viper, 1024x768 is a nogo if it needs to be fluidly.
The voodoo2 i got because it's the card of those years.

Rise of the Triad

Reply 19 of 32, by matze79

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Yeah i tried 3dmark 2000 only scored a mere 900 points.
The TNT1 Chip really struggles here.

Did you run UT in OpenGL Mode or in DirectX ?

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board