dionb wrote on 2020-06-06, 23:10:

GigAHerZ wrote on 2020-06-06, 10:42:

Got this 3com HUB for my retro computers. […]
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Got this 3com HUB for my retro computers.

I'm most happy about it because of its 10Base2. Thanks to this HUB, i can bring in my normal local network and then go forward with coxial 10Base2 cheapernet.
I have never had experience with that kind of network, only heared about it in my childhood at late 1990s and early 2000s.
Soon it's going to serve my 386, 486 and Pentium MMX machines.

For a 5€ price, it's a steal.

Great stuff! So long as it's not mission-critical 10Base2 Thinnet was and is good fun. Just don't ever stick the cables in your mouth when live...

I remember thin-net ethernet. Used to use it when I was a kid at school.

Always some bastard unplugging one of the connections and throwing the network into disarray ... otherwise works well.

Nowaday's I just stick to card that have RJ-45 connectors and they can be plugged directly into the network switch,

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-06, 23:17:

zPacKRat wrote on 2020-06-06, 19:09:

Now that I have my old pa-2013 up and running almost stable (I think I need to replace the smaller caps), I'm going to simply up […]
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Now that I have my old pa-2013 up and running almost stable (I think I need to replace the smaller caps), I'm going to simply upgrade that system with this eBay find, that I expected to have to recap, but it's been done and seemingly done well.

Your picture is not showing up.

Maybe download it and attach it to the forum.

thanks, fixed. tried to use google photos.....

dave343 wrote on 2020-06-05, 20:10:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-05, 20:07:

dave343 wrote on 2020-06-05, 20:03:

I’ve been eyeing a nice 486 PCI based board for a long time so finally bit the bullet. There is some blue stuff around you can see... maybe corrosion? I bought it from eBay, the seller said it was tested/working, so I’ll get it installed tonight. I have a 586/133 I’ll use but for now going to build it around my AMD DX2/66. The seller stated that no ram was included, but he did put 16MB FPM in the box so that was cool of him, plus the IDE and Floppy cables were also in the box, nice bonus. Hopefully I can get all that blue crap cleaned up... it wasn’t on the sellers pictures... but he was selling a few of these boards.

0072E643-6F7F-48DB-B37A-0A7B5D60C347.jpeg
2B6BD0F4-327E-4B67-8DAD-7DB12D7FB2DC.jpeg

The blue stuff is battery acid corrosion from the dumb barrel battery. Get rid of that battery and clean and neutralize the acid before it destroys the board. It will continue to eat away at stuff until the acid is neutralized.

You will want to either modify the board to be able to use a CR2032 battery or use an external 3x AA or 3x AAA battery holder.

Rubbing Alcohol 70%? I’ve been using that the last few minutes trying to get as much as possible off. Does the blue stuff have to be completely gone or if some remains will the alcohol at least neutralize it? I’m going to replace the battery with a 3x 1.2V Nicad Battery pack, I’ve done the same on another 486 board I have and it works awesome.

Hit that with some vinegar and a tooth brush followed by distilled water and if your feeling it, ipa.

zPacKRat wrote on 2020-06-07, 01:24:

dave343 wrote on 2020-06-05, 20:10:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-05, 20:07:

The blue stuff is battery acid corrosion from the dumb barrel battery. Get rid of that battery and clean and neutralize the acid before it destroys the board. It will continue to eat away at stuff until the acid is neutralized.

You will want to either modify the board to be able to use a CR2032 battery or use an external 3x AA or 3x AAA battery holder.

Rubbing Alcohol 70%? I’ve been using that the last few minutes trying to get as much as possible off. Does the blue stuff have to be completely gone or if some remains will the alcohol at least neutralize it? I’m going to replace the battery with a 3x 1.2V Nicad Battery pack, I’ve done the same on another 486 board I have and it works awesome.

Hit that with some vinegar and a tooth brush followed by distilled water and if your feeling it, ipa.

Make sure all traces of the blue stuff is gone.

zPacKRat wrote on 2020-06-07, 01:21:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-06, 23:17:

zPacKRat wrote on 2020-06-06, 19:09:

Now that I have my old pa-2013 up and running almost stable (I think I need to replace the smaller caps), I'm going to simply upgrade that system with this eBay find, that I expected to have to recap, but it's been done and seemingly done well.

Your picture is not showing up.

Maybe download it and attach it to the forum.

thanks, fixed. tried to use google photos.....

You can always attach the photo here just fine if you'd like (should be the easiest).

If you *really* want to use Google Photos, try my advice here (I should really give it its own thread):
Re: Televideo Telewave Audio 32 sound card, questions about its onboard wavetable ROM

I tested that in another thread with the suggestion in the other thread and it works for me. Never knew that was an option.

dionb wrote on 2020-06-06, 23:37:

Tbh it can be working in this condition.

I buy a lot of acid damaged boards but I never use them in a working system. There is something about a damaged board I find repulsive.
The corrosion will always be visible and there are a lot of undamaged boards around you can choose from. If the seller sets the price according to the damage then I have no problem buying it. But when a seller hides the fact that the board is damaged and the price doesn't reflect it then it's a scam.
Same with items that have hidden burns/faulty components that are sold AS-IS. The seller knows that it's faulty but his low resolution pictures don't show the damage at all. He automatically places the blame on the buyer because it was sold AS-IS without warranty.
I'd ask for a partial refund for this one IF it works.

Miphee wrote on 2020-06-07, 08:23:

[...]

I buy a lot of acid damaged boards but I never use them in a working system. There is something about a damaged board I find repulsive.
The corrosion will always be visible and there are a lot of undamaged boards around you can choose from. If the seller sets the price according to the damage then I have no problem buying it. But when a seller hides the fact that the board is damaged and the price doesn't reflect it then it's a scam.

It's only a scam if he explicitly says there is no damage, or takes photographs from an undamaged board and then ships a 'similar' one that happens to be damaged.

Same with items that have hidden burns/faulty components that are sold AS-IS. The seller knows that it's faulty but his low resolution pictures don't show the damage at all. He automatically places the blame on the buyer because it was sold AS-IS without warranty.
I'd ask for a partial refund for this one IF it works.

If the only claim was it works - and it does work, and the photographs were from this exact board, just fuzzy at the relevant point, there is absolutely no ground for a refund. It's the board he advertised and it does what he claimed.

Battery damage is a fact of life in old electronics, just as bad caps and all the other signs of age are. Of course we all prefer clean stuff, and yes explicitly clean hardware is worth more than damaged or disfigured hardware. But if you see something advertised with crappy pics (as usual...) and don't explicitly ask about this stuff up front, you're the one taking a risk. If you have requirements beyond what the seller states, you should be clear about it before agreeing to the sale.

dionb wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:28:

*a bunch of sensible words*

Thanks for saying what I'm thinking.

As for "sold-as-is/untested is always a scam", my personal experience tells me that is just not true. Most people just don't have the equipment/knowledge/time to test the wierd items we're into. The alternative would be to just throw it in the bin.

dionb wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:28:

just fuzzy at the relevant point...It's the board he advertised and it does what he claimed.

Ebay and local laws think otherwise. If I sell someone a car that has a hidden problem I knew about then I am responsible for it (at least in Hungary). This board has a hidden defect: it is acid damaged that the seller "forgot" to mention or include in the pictures. He had to know about it unless he is blind so Ebay would absolutely support a partial refund claim.

dionb wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:28:

Battery damage is a fact of life in old electronics, just as bad caps and all the other signs of age are.

I'm sorry but those are two different things. A seller doesn't have to give warranty for 30 years old tech but he has to include all details of the advertised product. The green gunk everywhere is a sign that something is obviously wrong. If you hide this sign you are committing fraud. AS-IS won't protect the sellers from everything when there is a reasonable doubt that the seller manipulated with the photos. If the seller includes high-resolution photo of the damage then the buyer can decide if he buys the board and takes the risk or not. If the seller lies about it then a refund is in order and the seller has no case.

dionb wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:28:

and don't explicitly ask about this stuff up front, you're the one taking a risk.

That is victim blaming territory and it doesn't work that way.
The victim got all the information from the advertisement (photos, description). The scammer hid the real damage to the board to make it more sellable. Once the victim realized that he got scammed he had only one duty: report the scam to Ebay and either send the product back and ask for a full refund or keep it and ask for a partial refund.
If what you say is true then a seller can just sell any crap to unsuspecting buyers and they can't do anything about it because they didn't ask detailed questions about the product. Now that is victim blaming and it's not right. Hungarian lawmakers also disagree: a seller can't deny a warranty claim (6 months for used products) even if he claims so in the advertisement. The seller's word doesn't nullify the law. So AS-IS simply won't fly here when there is a problem with the transaction. I'm sure that Ebay operates in a very similar way.

stoof wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:46:

Most people just don't have the equipment/knowledge/time to test the wierd items we're into. The alternative would be to just throw it in the bin.

People who know nothing about a hardware have nothing to gain by manipulating with low-resolution photos with missing angles.
People who know about the damage do (like in this case). But if you say it's okay to hide the problematic parts then I have nothing more to say.
How much time does it take to take 4 photos of a board? Even cheap phones offer decent image quality so that can't be an excuse.

I just realized that I've been sitting on thousands of dollars worth of acid damaged boards all along.
I bought them for $3-5. Repaired them, and now I'll just upload them to Ebay and sell for $30-50. I'll conveniently hide the damaged and repaired sections of the boards, sell them AS-IS and reject all warranty claims. They work, right? Yes, they are ugly but it doesn't matter does it? No, I didn't take photos of the damaged parts but you should have asked for more photos so it's your fault. /S

C'mon guys, I'm disappointed.

stoof wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:46:

dionb wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:28:

*a bunch of sensible words*

Thanks for saying what I'm thinking.

As for "sold-as-is/untested is always a scam", my personal experience tells me that is just not true. Most people just don't have the equipment/knowledge/time to test the wierd items we're into. The alternative would be to just throw it in the bin.

^this, the older the hardware gets the higher the chance it is sold-as-is/untested because people simply have no way to test it, and so far most of the things I have bought like that turned out to be working just fine.

doesn't even have to be that old... AGP graphics card? no way to test for most people, and even then, a lot of people simply don't want to go through the effort to test a card that sells for a few euros and I'm totally fine with that, I'd rather only have to pay €5 for a card with the chance that it won't work than have to pay a lot more because they had to go through all the effort of setting up a test environment and actually test an old card.

most of the stuff I use came from scrap lots anyways, and even those work most of the time apart from when they're physically damaged.

and yes, I do come across auctions that say "tested" when they obviously haven't been, sometimes it's just the seller taking their luck, sometimes it's obviously damaged and might be a scam or the seller simply doesn't know better, but I just tend to avoid these.

I've also bought PCs with ovious battery corrosion that were still working, and some people simply don't know what that is and just turned it on... it works, so they sell it as working.

Usually if I am suspicious of "untested" meaning "I cant get it to work/its broken" I will look at the sellers other sales. If there is lots of retro/vintage parts then you can hazard a guess they do in fact know about it and are trying to pull a fast one.

Today I picked up a case for free locally. Nice well built tower that I will move my P3/voodoo system into. Very clean for its age.

Scored a BOSS (Roland) BR-8 Zip100-based multi-track recorder for 50 bucks. 😀

I sell both tested and untested vintage parts. Most of the stuff I try to test, but some stuff is just not worth the trouble. Untested items are usually motherboards that require more prep than I'm willing to do (thermal paste on CPU, attach hs and fan, mostly). So it's possible that prospective buyers think I'm lying, but I take good photos and try to be up front about my motivation to test.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-06-07, 16:21:

I sell both tested and untested vintage parts. Most of the stuff I try to test, but some stuff is just not worth the trouble. Untested items are usually motherboards that require more prep than I'm willing to do (thermal paste on CPU, attach hs and fan, mostly). So it's possible that prospective buyers think I'm lying, but I take good photos and try to be up front about my motivation to test.

Some sellers have no clue how to test some items and you are better off getting them untested then hooked up incorrectly and fried.

Opti Local Bus VGA card:

aaaaaaaaaa gib! 😁

I need one too thanks 😜

Also: circuit board location area 😀 lovely