I had an idea about an alternative way of doing things that might work on my display and likely others.

What about a custom line2x mode where horizontal sampling is done at 1.6666 times the normal sample rate and no horizontal line multiplication is done?

That would give 1066x800 , which is 4:3 EDIT : and below 162MHz

H. Samplerate : 1332 (1332.5)
H. Synclength : 33
H. backporch : 211
H. Active : 1066
V. Synclength : 2
V. Backporch : 34
V. Active : 400

I tried it with line3x mode (which obviously does not give the right aspect, because of the 3x vertical multiplication), but I do get a picture .

EDIT : Although I do get a thin vertical line of a slightly darker shade by the left edge of the image . This may just be my monitor (Acer VW257) reacting to the 1066x1200 I am feeding it for testing .

EDIT2: I tried simulating the resolution and timings using PowerStrip and the Geforce FX 5900, but the damn thing's drivers always override monitor scaling for me, so I can't really test it . I would test it with the Voodoo 3 and OSSC, but I don't know which timing preset it will associate to that oddball resolution and I will obviously need to set timings manually for this to work through OSSC .

darry wrote on 2020-06-08, 19:22:

I had an idea about an alternative way of doing things that might work on my display and likely others. […]
Show full quote

I had an idea about an alternative way of doing things that might work on my display and likely others.

What about a custom line2x mode where horizontal sampling is done at 1.6666 times the normal sample rate and no horizontal line multiplication is done?

That would give 1066x800 , which is 4:3 EDIT : and below 162MHz

H. Samplerate : 1332 (1332.5)
H. Synclength : 33
H. backporch : 211
H. Active : 1066
V. Synclength : 2
V. Backporch : 34
V. Active : 400

I tried it with line3x mode (which obviously does not give the right aspect, because of the 3x vertical multiplication), but I do get a picture .

EDIT : Although I do get a thin vertical line of a slightly darker shade by the left edge of the image . This may just be my monitor (Acer VW257) reacting to the 1066x1200 I am feeding it for testing .

EDIT2: I tried simulating the resolution and timings using PowerStrip and the Geforce FX 5900, but the damn thing's drivers always override monitor scaling for me, so I can't really test it . I would test it with the Voodoo 3 and OSSC, but I don't know which timing preset it will associate to that oddball resolution and I will obviously need to set timings manually for this to work through OSSC .

Very interesting ! I will test it on different old computers here. Thanks !

Prez wrote on 2020-06-08, 21:26:

darry wrote on 2020-06-08, 19:22:

I had an idea about an alternative way of doing things that might work on my display and likely others. […]
Show full quote

I had an idea about an alternative way of doing things that might work on my display and likely others.

What about a custom line2x mode where horizontal sampling is done at 1.6666 times the normal sample rate and no horizontal line multiplication is done?

That would give 1066x800 , which is 4:3 EDIT : and below 162MHz

H. Samplerate : 1332 (1332.5)
H. Synclength : 33
H. backporch : 211
H. Active : 1066
V. Synclength : 2
V. Backporch : 34
V. Active : 400

I tried it with line3x mode (which obviously does not give the right aspect, because of the 3x vertical multiplication), but I do get a picture .

EDIT : Although I do get a thin vertical line of a slightly darker shade by the left edge of the image . This may just be my monitor (Acer VW257) reacting to the 1066x1200 I am feeding it for testing .

EDIT2: I tried simulating the resolution and timings using PowerStrip and the Geforce FX 5900, but the damn thing's drivers always override monitor scaling for me, so I can't really test it . I would test it with the Voodoo 3 and OSSC, but I don't know which timing preset it will associate to that oddball resolution and I will obviously need to set timings manually for this to work through OSSC .

Very interesting ! I will test it on different old computers here. Thanks !

EDIT: Just to be clear to work properly, this would need an OSSC firmware update. Currently with firmware 0.85, 1066x800 output is not possible in line2x mode . I updated the feature request I made for decoupled input/output timings, but I probably should make a new one https://github.com/marqs85/ossc/issues/56 . I opened a new feature request . https://github.com/marqs85/ossc/issues/59

Well, I have maybe bad news and good news .

If I set these timings on the Voodoo 3 using PowerStrip, I cannot get the OSSC to sync correctly to the input . The OSSC chooses 1024x768 as the preset and even if I modify the timings to match it won't sync . It could be that the Voodoo 3 can't actually output them correctly either . I am not too worried though, because the sampling would actually need to be done for 1332 by 449 pixels (total, not active) only .

The good news is that the OSD is displayed properly on the monitor even if input is garbled and the picture is 4:3 (monitor detects 1066x800). That means both my monitor (and hopefully others) and the HDMI TX in the OSSC can handle it .

Pierre32 wrote on 2020-06-03, 05:49:

My little cheapie arrived. I tested it on my 48" 4k TV. Glad to see everything display at the correct aspect ratio without havin […]
Show full quote

My little cheapie arrived. I tested it on my 48" 4k TV. Glad to see everything display at the correct aspect ratio without having to make adjustments.

• The image scaling does add a little softness (it would be unresonable to expect more at this price of course). It would bother me if I was sitting up close in front of a monitor, but on the TV when I'm back on the couch, it's less of an issue.
• Feeding it from my 386 system (with Tseng ET4000AX video card) there is some noise in the black display
• Otherwise, everything I ran under DOS displayed well. In some games there are a few pixels cut off at right or bottom.
• It displays BIOS

I also tried it with my Windows 98 box. Similar results, but less noisy image.

Verdict: As a quick VGA to HDMI solution, this thing was $12 well spent - for TV gaming IMO. For a desktop monitor I would be a lot fussier.

I can barely read the text on the chip, but I think it is: AG02-EX 1842

Screenshot of the one I bought: https://i.imgur.com/vUimUdN.png

Interesting addendum to this. I was just talking to someone on another site who bought the exact same item from the same Australian seller - but his has different internals, and doesn't work in DOS.

Macrosilicon MS9288 PDD-MNFNG 1D 1851 […]
Show full quote

Macrosilicon
MS9288
PDD-MNFNG 1D
1851

We already know that many of these look the same on the outside, but aren't on the inside. But it seems that even buying from the same listing is a gamble.

Pierre32 wrote on 2020-06-09, 03:13:

Interesting addendum to this. I was just talking to someone on another site who bought the exact same item from the same Austral […]
Show full quote

Pierre32 wrote on 2020-06-03, 05:49:

My little cheapie arrived. I tested it on my 48" 4k TV. Glad to see everything display at the correct aspect ratio without havin […]
Show full quote

My little cheapie arrived. I tested it on my 48" 4k TV. Glad to see everything display at the correct aspect ratio without having to make adjustments.

• The image scaling does add a little softness (it would be unresonable to expect more at this price of course). It would bother me if I was sitting up close in front of a monitor, but on the TV when I'm back on the couch, it's less of an issue.
• Feeding it from my 386 system (with Tseng ET4000AX video card) there is some noise in the black display
• Otherwise, everything I ran under DOS displayed well. In some games there are a few pixels cut off at right or bottom.
• It displays BIOS

I also tried it with my Windows 98 box. Similar results, but less noisy image.

Verdict: As a quick VGA to HDMI solution, this thing was $12 well spent - for TV gaming IMO. For a desktop monitor I would be a lot fussier.

I can barely read the text on the chip, but I think it is: AG02-EX 1842

Screenshot of the one I bought: https://i.imgur.com/vUimUdN.png

Interesting addendum to this. I was just talking to someone on another site who bought the exact same item from the same Australian seller - but his has different internals, and doesn't work in DOS.

Macrosilicon MS9288 PDD-MNFNG 1D 1851 […]
Show full quote

Macrosilicon
MS9288
PDD-MNFNG 1D
1851

We already know that many of these look the same on the outside, but aren't on the inside. But it seems that even buying from the same listing is a gamble.

If you see one that
a) passes 70Hz
b) scales it to a 4:3 resolution (both pixel and image)
you have essentially found the Holy Grail .

I've just given it a proper gameplay test with Pinball Dreams, this time also passing sound over HDMI. "It works" is the best review I can give it. There is pretty bad lag (which you experience as input lag to the tune of maybe 50-100ms) and the audio level is low. And of course graphics are much crisper and scrolling much smoother on the CRT.

(My TV may be contributing some of the lag. But I do have it in Game mode to minimise it.)

It reinforces my first impressions. It's a neat gadget if you need a quick & dirty connection to a TV, but not something you would use full time.

It's ironic that with all the freesync capable (and thus 70Hz in/out capable) display controller boards available out with VGA/HDMI/DP input and embedded Displayport (eDP) output, which is elecrically and logically compatible with Displayport with a passive cable adapter (eDP has some extra signals lines), that nobody has tried to make a 70Hz capable scaler with proper 4:3 scaling .

If only I was sure to be able to force a specific output resolution (some have jumpers for that, but not the freesync ones), I would try myself .

I find it weird that pretty much every single scaler I have, even really really old ones are only capable of outputting 50, 60 or 75Hz on scaled outputs while on the input side they accept pretty much anything from 24 to 85Hz... I need to read a bit into some of them because I believe on some it is possible to program custom modes, so it should somehow be possible to retain 70Hz.

edit: just went through a few manuals, at least two of them seem to support frame lock to the intput refresh rate ^^ need to play around more.

imi wrote on 2020-06-10, 19:08:

I find it weird that pretty much every single scaler I have, even really really old ones are only capable of outputting 50, 60 or 75Hz on scaled outputs while on the input side they accept pretty much anything from 24 to 85Hz... I need to read a bit into some of them because I believe on some it is possible to program custom modes, so it should somehow be possible to retain 70Hz.

I have thought of custom modes, but the manuals are never clear as to whether those modes would be passed though untouched or converted to 60Hz .

There are some scalers that advertise 1024x768 70Hz input and 1024x768 70Hz output as the only 70 output resolution . One of those would not work for me, though .

I'm currently a bit low on space and everything is a mess, when I have some space to actually work I'll report back with my findings ^^

Prez wrote on 2020-06-06, 09:55:

Hi all, […]
Show full quote

Hi all,

I ordered this one, its cheap : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000330193506 … .3e9c3f7behMnTV

Will show my tests 😉

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Can't wait for Your test.

After searching far and wide, I think I may have found some scalers that actually handle 720x400@70Hz (and probably 640x400 @70Hz, though it is not explicitly mentioned) in and out, though they are limited to 1024x768 or 1152x864 when outputting 70Hz .
They are the
CP-252 (VGA to DVI) http://en.cypress.com.tw/store/catalog/app/pr … ntinued-Product
CP-253 (DVI to VGA) http://en.cypress.com.tw/store/catalog/app/pr … ntinued-Product https://atlona.com/pdf/CP-253.pdf
CP-254 (DVI to DVI) http://en.cypress.com.tw/store/catalog/app/pr … ntinued-Product
from CYP ( http://en.cypress.com.tw/) and apparently rebranded by Atlona (manuals are pretty much identical) .

They do not have a passthrough mode though, so everything going in gets scaled .
They do not have any aspect ratio control either so your monitor has to be able to preserve aspect ratio on received 4:3 resolutions (AFAIK most, if not all, monitors do) .
They are all discontinued, but https://www.cyp.com.au/ seems to still sell them at around 300 Australian dollars each plus shipping .
I was luck enough to find a used Atlona branded CP-253 (would have preferred a CP-254 in order to avoid using monitor's VGA in) for 100 US$ with shipping . I will post back when I receive it and get to test it with my OSSC (the lack of passthrough in the CP-253 is not the end of the world for me as I can always use another HDMI switch or splitter between the OSSC and the CP-253) .

I also saw the CSC-V102P http://en.cypress.com.tw/store/catalog/app/pr … h-Test-Patterns , which is a current product, but according to my understanding of the manual it can only passthrough 70HZ resolutions and not scale them (or generate test patterns with them ). I still fired off an inquiry about this to CYP to make sure .

I heard back from CYP about the CSC-V102P .They will confirm with their engineering whether my understanding of the manual is accurate or not .

I purchased the only CYP CP-254 currently available on a certain auction site (did not want to pay and wait for shipping from Australia) . If it works the way I expect it to with my OSSC, it should keep me happy until the OSSC Pro comes out . The CP-253 will likely assume a backup role . I will, of course, post my findings to this thread .

As for the possibility of using OSSC in line3x mode for 1600x1200@70Hz, there are optimizations in progress that should improve the chances of it working. They are expected to be present in the next release . If they work for me, but still imply driving the OSSC (much) beyond spec, I may forgo using the option . This hardware is expensive (for me, at least) and I would rather it have the longest life possible .

See https://github.com/marqs85/ossc/issues/59 for OSSC info .

EDIT: I heard back from the very nice folks at CYP. Unfortunately, they confirmed that no current product of theirs does 720x400@70Hz to 1600x1200@70Hz . Additionally, from my own searching through their catalogue, I only found the previously mentioned discontinued products that could scale 720x400@70Hz to anything while preserving 70Hz .

Hi all !

I'm so ashamed. I just received, yesterday, this one adapter from Aliexpress :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32971318124.ht … .2a9d6c37sWe1Tl

And i was SO surprised to see it is working nicely even under BIOS or MS-DOS Games in 70Hz !!
I wanted to show you how much it is doing good this morning, but like a fucking idiot, i just saw i put yesterday night, very tired, the wrong power output in it, so it died 🙁 (12V instead of 5V ! 🙁 ).

But luckily i did run some live tests yesterday night so i can say : yes, it works great even in DOS games in 70hz !!
https://www.facebook.com/prezisgaming/videos/ … 22331077850874/

Its a bit blurry of course, and the only video you can see is a very compressed one from Facebook, sorry, it doesn't help.
And yes, it looks like the first one i got, but this one does works. Why ? I really don't know.

It seems i ordered a second one, so maybe tomorrow i will receive another one, the same, and be able to conduct more test.

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Prez wrote on 2020-06-17, 14:25:

Hi all ! […]
Show full quote

Hi all !

I'm so ashamed. I just received, yesterday, this one adapter from Aliexpress :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32971318124.ht … .2a9d6c37sWe1Tl

And i was SO surprised to see it is working nicely even under BIOS or MS-DOS Games in 70Hz !!
I wanted to show you how much it is doing good this morning, but like a fucking idiot, i just saw i put yesterday night, very tired, the wrong power output in it, so it died 🙁 (12V instead of 5V ! 🙁 ).

But luckily i did run some live tests yesterday night so i can say : yes, it works great even in DOS games in 70hz !!
https://www.facebook.com/prezisgaming/videos/ … 22331077850874/

Its a bit blurry of course, and the only video you can see is a very compressed one from Facebook, sorry, it doesn't help.
And yes, it looks like the first one i got, but this one does works. Why ? I really don't know.

It seems i ordered a second one, so maybe tomorrow i will receive another one, the same, and be able to conduct more test.

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Nice that it accepts 70Hz, but does it output it as 60Hz (great for video capture) or 70Hz (great for gameplay) ?

Either way, a cheap working extra option is a good thing .

What chipset does it use ?

darry wrote on 2020-06-17, 14:37:

Nice that it accepts 70Hz, but does it output it as 60Hz (great for video capture) or 70Hz (great for gameplay) ? […]
Show full quote

Prez wrote on 2020-06-17, 14:25:

Hi all ! […]
Show full quote

Hi all !

I'm so ashamed. I just received, yesterday, this one adapter from Aliexpress :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32971318124.ht … .2a9d6c37sWe1Tl

And i was SO surprised to see it is working nicely even under BIOS or MS-DOS Games in 70Hz !!
I wanted to show you how much it is doing good this morning, but like a fucking idiot, i just saw i put yesterday night, very tired, the wrong power output in it, so it died 🙁 (12V instead of 5V ! 🙁 ).

But luckily i did run some live tests yesterday night so i can say : yes, it works great even in DOS games in 70hz !!
https://www.facebook.com/prezisgaming/videos/ … 22331077850874/

Its a bit blurry of course, and the only video you can see is a very compressed one from Facebook, sorry, it doesn't help.
And yes, it looks like the first one i got, but this one does works. Why ? I really don't know.

It seems i ordered a second one, so maybe tomorrow i will receive another one, the same, and be able to conduct more test.

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Nice that it accepts 70Hz, but does it output it as 60Hz (great for video capture) or 70Hz (great for gameplay) ?

Either way, a cheap working extra option is a good thing .

What chipset does it use ?

Hi ! It outputs 60Hz, ok for television and capture (my goal).
About the chipset, i don't know. I have now two physically identical of those, and the first one did work in 70 hz mode but was forgetting about 32 pixels on the right, but this new one (before dying 🙁 ) is all okay.
Here is a pic of the inside :

Will do a kind of comparative view between the two, but maybe it is just the firmware running into the difference.

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Prez wrote on 2020-06-17, 14:42:

Hi ! It outputs 60Hz, ok for television and capture (my goal). About the chipset, i don't know. I have now two physically identi […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2020-06-17, 14:37:

Nice that it accepts 70Hz, but does it output it as 60Hz (great for video capture) or 70Hz (great for gameplay) ? […]
Show full quote

Prez wrote on 2020-06-17, 14:25:

Hi all ! […]
Show full quote

Hi all !

I'm so ashamed. I just received, yesterday, this one adapter from Aliexpress :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32971318124.ht … .2a9d6c37sWe1Tl

And i was SO surprised to see it is working nicely even under BIOS or MS-DOS Games in 70Hz !!
I wanted to show you how much it is doing good this morning, but like a fucking idiot, i just saw i put yesterday night, very tired, the wrong power output in it, so it died 🙁 (12V instead of 5V ! 🙁 ).

But luckily i did run some live tests yesterday night so i can say : yes, it works great even in DOS games in 70hz !!
https://www.facebook.com/prezisgaming/videos/ … 22331077850874/

Its a bit blurry of course, and the only video you can see is a very compressed one from Facebook, sorry, it doesn't help.
And yes, it looks like the first one i got, but this one does works. Why ? I really don't know.

It seems i ordered a second one, so maybe tomorrow i will receive another one, the same, and be able to conduct more test.

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Nice that it accepts 70Hz, but does it output it as 60Hz (great for video capture) or 70Hz (great for gameplay) ?

Either way, a cheap working extra option is a good thing .

What chipset does it use ?

Hi ! It outputs 60Hz, ok for television and capture (my goal).
About the chipset, i don't know. I have now two physically identical of those, and the first one did work in 70 hz mode but was forgetting about 32 pixels on the right, but this new one (before dying 🙁 ) is all okay.
Here is a pic of the inside :
20200617_142629.jpg

Will do a kind of comparative view between the two, but maybe it is just the firmware running into the difference.

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

More elaborate than I expected . Too bad firmware is not socketed .

probably has like 5 frames of lag though 🤣

Yes, the two are the same hardware exactly !

But there is sticker from 2019 on the OK one, and a sticker from 2016 as well like the KO one.
So the difference should be the firmware !
This lead us to the next and biggest question about it : how can we flash the firmware of this thing ? we can try to use the UPDATE usb port on the front panel of course, but with which tools ? I didn't find yet.

Will try to fix it this evening...

EDIT : Dead, its seems the card if still working (some chips are still heating) but the power doesn't go far to the LED and the VS92 chip, the one producing the HDMI signal... mmh....

Best regards
Philippe Dubois