VOGONS


Reply 20 of 41, by darry

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-15, 01:21:

That really is not bad at all.

It definitely would no put me off, if I was looking to buy some .

I was lucky enough to find some AWE32 and SB32 cards pre-populated with 8MB of RAM , but I put those in storage, as I also have an AWE64 + SIMMCON Revival (from Serdashop ) with a 32MB 72-pin SIMM .

I am mentioning this, because AWE64 cards are much cheaper than AWE32/SB32 , 32MB 72-pin SIMMs are available for less than £10 in Europe (shipped from Germany, for example) and a SIMMCOMM Revival is € 49,00 plus shipping and ships from Europe .

EDIT: Add everything up and the AWE64 +SIMMCONN Revival seems like a better deal for most . Selling the AWE32/SB32 if you have one is definitely something to consider .

EDIT2: I am located in Canada, so those UK shipping estimations are as accurate as the site I was using to generate them let me make them .

Reply 21 of 41, by appiah4

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4MB and 16MB 30-pin RAM is not abundant or cheap where I live. If it is where you live, stock up on it would be my advice. I have 2x16MB in my AWE32 but it's in a P133 with 32MB system memory, so it rarely gets to use more than 8MB RAM. If I could downgrade to 8MB I would, I just don't have the sticks.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 22 of 41, by darry

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-15, 06:52:

4MB and 16MB 30-pin RAM is not abundant or cheap where I live. If it is where you live, stock up on it would be my advice. I have 2x16MB in my AWE32 but it's in a P133 with 32MB system memory, so it rarely gets to use more than 8MB RAM. If I could downgrade to 8MB I would, I just don't have the sticks.

I think getting some spares if affordable is indeed good advice .

If you don't mind me asking, on what continent are you located ?

Reply 23 of 41, by matze79

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darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 00:46:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-06-14, 21:55:
matze79 wrote on 2020-06-14, 21:06:
Anyway makes only sense if using win9x and loading sf2 banks. if you don`t plan to use it. you won`t need more then 512Kb. […]
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Anyway makes only sense if using win9x and loading sf2 banks.
if you don`t plan to use it.
you won`t need more then 512Kb.

My SB32 has no RAM soldered.
Hm the days of getting cheap 4Mb Modules are over now i think.

In the USA, 4MB Simms are still $5-$6 a piece shipped. Even 16MB 30-pin SIMMs are not that expensive. They are about $11 a piece shipped.

Considering the small weight and size, shipping worldwide should not be that bad either .

shipping from us is so expensive that i can make new ones cheaper.

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Reply 24 of 41, by appiah4

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darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 09:17:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-15, 06:52:

4MB and 16MB 30-pin RAM is not abundant or cheap where I live. If it is where you live, stock up on it would be my advice. I have 2x16MB in my AWE32 but it's in a P133 with 32MB system memory, so it rarely gets to use more than 8MB RAM. If I could downgrade to 8MB I would, I just don't have the sticks.

I think getting some spares if affordable is indeed good advice .

If you don't mind me asking, on what continent are you located ?

Eastern Europe, kind of. (Turkey, specifically)

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 25 of 41, by candle_86

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So I lost some ram in my 486 I'm now stuck at 8mb so I just bought 6x16mb 70ns parity Simms, I'll put 4 in my 486 and 2 in my sb32. The price for 6x16mb was less than 8x4mb Simms so I figured why not.

Reply 26 of 41, by jheronimus

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK you can't really play around with soundfonts under Win3.11. Creative made a Control Panel for W311, you can technically load soundfonts into memory, but since you can't really run most DOS games within Windows 3.11, you can't benefit from soundfonts. You will only see difference in native Win3 applications (like MIDI players) or some games that run under Win 3.11 and use MIDI (like Darkseed 2, for example).

At least that was my experience when I tried loading soundfonts and playing DOOM.

Otherwise soundfont functionality is limited to .sbk files, and there aren't any larger than 6MB, I think.

So realistically you will need Win9x to use SF2 files. You'll have to run DOS games in Windows, and it will work. The main issue you have to consider is that AWE cards load soundfonts during each Windows startup. ISA bus isn't fast, so you'll add about a couple of minutes to your boot time on the fastest Pentium III machines (486 load times might be worse. You can't have this process in the background, you can't do anything until your SB32 finishes loading soundfonts. The only workaround is to remember to load smaller soundfont before each shutdown.

In practice it does become really annoying, so I don't think you'll use Masterpiece on a daily basis. In my experience 8MB is enough for a nice soundfont. Then again, simply having 2x16MB won't affect your performance, but it will give you an option to at least try larger soundfonts or use them occasionally.

TL;DR: I don't see how SB32/AWE32 is useful for a Win 3.11 machine. If we're talking about Windows 9x, consider that large soundfonts have their quirks, so you probably won't use them too often. However, it is nice to be able to try them once in a while.

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Reply 27 of 41, by appiah4

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jheronimus wrote on 2020-06-15, 16:42:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK you can't really play around with soundfonts under Win3.11. Creative made a Control Pa […]
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK you can't really play around with soundfonts under Win3.11. Creative made a Control Panel for W311, you can technically load soundfonts into memory, but since you can't really run most DOS games within Windows 3.11, you can't benefit from soundfonts. You will only see difference in native Win3 applications (like MIDI players) or some games that run under Win 3.11 and use MIDI (like Darkseed 2, for example).

At least that was my experience when I tried loading soundfonts and playing DOOM.

Otherwise soundfont functionality is limited to .sbk files, and there aren't any larger than 6MB, I think.

So realistically you will need Win9x to use SF2 files. You'll have to run DOS games in Windows, and it will work. The main issue you have to consider is that AWE cards load soundfonts during each Windows startup. ISA bus isn't fast, so you'll add about a couple of minutes to your boot time on the fastest Pentium III machines (486 load times might be worse. You can't have this process in the background, you can't do anything until your SB32 finishes loading soundfonts. The only workaround is to remember to load smaller soundfont before each shutdown.

In practice it does become really annoying, so I don't think you'll use Masterpiece on a daily basis. In my experience 8MB is enough for a nice soundfont. Then again, simply having 2x16MB won't affect your performance, but it will give you an option to at least try larger soundfonts or use them occasionally.

TL;DR: I don't see how SB32/AWE32 is useful for a Win 3.11 machine. If we're talking about Windows 9x, consider that large soundfonts have their quirks, so you probably won't use them too often. However, it is nice to be able to try them once in a while.

All true.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 29 of 41, by darry

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-15, 11:39:
darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 09:17:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-15, 06:52:

4MB and 16MB 30-pin RAM is not abundant or cheap where I live. If it is where you live, stock up on it would be my advice. I have 2x16MB in my AWE32 but it's in a P133 with 32MB system memory, so it rarely gets to use more than 8MB RAM. If I could downgrade to 8MB I would, I just don't have the sticks.

I think getting some spares if affordable is indeed good advice .

If you don't mind me asking, on what continent are you located ?

Eastern Europe, kind of. (Turkey, specifically)

Is shipping from Eastern Europan countries like Russia, Poland and Hungary very expensive for you ? I have bought some stuff from these places and shipping was reasonable even as far as to Canada .

Reply 31 of 41, by maxtherabbit

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darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 16:56:
maxtherabbit wrote on 2020-06-15, 16:54:

does anyone know if the aforementioned vcgs4mv4 is a SBK or SF2?

It is an SF2 .

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Reply 32 of 41, by appiah4

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darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 16:55:

Is shipping from Eastern Europan countries like Russia, Poland and Hungary very expensive for you ? I have bought some stuff from these places and shipping was reasonable even as far as to Canada .

Shipping from Russia/Poland etc. to anywhere is usually equally expensive, I suspect they are embedding item costs into shipping in most cases.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 33 of 41, by boxpressed

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For anyone thinking about buying an SB32 or AWE32 and/or 30-pin SIMMs, I'd encourage you to take a look at the thread first if you own a SB Live!: Guide: Installing Windows 9x and DOS drivers on Sound Blaster Live! cards (version 3.1)

This method allows you to load large sound fonts using your Live! that you can access in DOS games launched from Windows (the same way you would access <28MB soundfonts in DOS from an SB32 or AWE32).

You might just find that the Live! works for
your needs and may even be better than the ISA solutions in some ways (soundfonts > 28MB).

Reply 34 of 41, by darry

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-15, 17:48:
darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 16:55:

Is shipping from Eastern Europan countries like Russia, Poland and Hungary very expensive for you ? I have bought some stuff from these places and shipping was reasonable even as far as to Canada .

Shipping from Russia/Poland etc. to anywhere is usually equally expensive, I suspect they are embedding item costs into shipping in most cases.

I usually look at total cost anyway and, from that perspective, stuff from Eastern Europe tends to be more affordable . Experience with sellers has been good too . My CT3670 was bought from Russia for 24 $US, shipping included, in 2016 (those were the good old days, 🤣) . The only reason I don't buy more from that region is shipping time which is due to distance .

Reply 35 of 41, by darry

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boxpressed wrote on 2020-06-15, 18:33:
For anyone thinking about buying an SB32 or AWE32 and/or 30-pin SIMMs, I'd encourage you to take a look at the thread first if y […]
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For anyone thinking about buying an SB32 or AWE32 and/or 30-pin SIMMs, I'd encourage you to take a look at the thread first if you own a SB Live!: Guide: Installing Windows 9x and DOS drivers on Sound Blaster Live! cards (version 3.1)

This method allows you to load large sound fonts using your Live! that you can access in DOS games launched from Windows (the same way you would access <28MB soundfonts in DOS from an SB32 or AWE32).

You might just find that the Live! works for
your needs and may even be better than the ISA solutions in some ways (soundfonts > 28MB).

I may be in a minority with this opinion, but I have never found the SB Live/Audify/X-Fi MIDI rendering to sound as good as an EMU8000 based card, such as the AWE32/SB32/AWE64 , when using the same soundfont . There is something with the FX engine in particular that just does not sound quite as nice to me on the EMU 10K and 20K cards .

This is not nostalgia talking either. I have owned SB Live, Audigy and X-Fi when they were current and only tried my first EMU8000 card in 2016, but immediately preferred its rendering .

Reply 36 of 41, by boxpressed

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darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 18:51:

I may be in a minority with this opinion, but I have never found the SB Live/Audify/X-Fi MIDI rendering to sound as good as an EMU8000 based card, such as the AWE32/SB32/AWE64 , when using the same soundfont . There is something with the FX engine in particular that just does not sound quite as nice to me on the EMU 10K and 20K cards .

This is not nostalgia talking either. I have owned SB Live, Audigy and X-Fi when they were current and only tried my first EMU8000 card in 2016, but immediately preferred its rendering .

Fair enough. In my wavetable sample thread, I tested a SB32 CT3930 with 28MB RAM and a 25MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont as well as a SB Live! CT4830 with a 47MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont. I haven't tested the Live! with the 25MB soundfont but probably will.

Here's Grabbag on the SB32 with EMU8K and onboard ROM: https://soundcloud.com/user-306991531/ct3930-duke3d

And on the SB32 with 25MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont: https://soundcloud.com/user-306991531/ct3930sf-duke3d

And on the SB Live! with 47MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont: https://soundcloud.com/user-622281062/duke3d-sblivepatch93

Reply 37 of 41, by darry

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boxpressed wrote on 2020-06-15, 19:01:
Fair enough. In my wavetable sample thread, I tested a SB32 CT3930 with 28MB RAM and a 25MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont as well as a […]
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darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 18:51:

I may be in a minority with this opinion, but I have never found the SB Live/Audify/X-Fi MIDI rendering to sound as good as an EMU8000 based card, such as the AWE32/SB32/AWE64 , when using the same soundfont . There is something with the FX engine in particular that just does not sound quite as nice to me on the EMU 10K and 20K cards .

This is not nostalgia talking either. I have owned SB Live, Audigy and X-Fi when they were current and only tried my first EMU8000 card in 2016, but immediately preferred its rendering .

Fair enough. In my wavetable sample thread, I tested a SB32 CT3930 with 28MB RAM and a 25MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont as well as a SB Live! CT4830 with a 47MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont. I haven't tested the Live! with the 25MB soundfont but probably will.

Here's Grabbag on the SB32 with EMU8K and onboard ROM: https://soundcloud.com/user-306991531/ct3930-duke3d

And on the SB32 with 25MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont: https://soundcloud.com/user-306991531/ct3930sf-duke3d

And on the SB Live! with 47MB SC-55 "clone" soundfont: https://soundcloud.com/user-622281062/duke3d-sblivepatch93

And here is Grabbag on an AWE64 CT4500 with the vcgs4mv4 4MB soundfont .

Filename
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.

I still prefer the SC-88 rendition, though .

Reply 38 of 41, by boxpressed

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darry wrote on 2020-06-15, 23:46:

And here is Grabbag on an AWE64 CT4500 with the vcgs4mv4 4MB soundfont .
grabbag_awe64_vcgs4mv4.m4a .

I still prefer the SC-88 rendition, though .

That sounds great. Probably the best 4MB soundfont I've heard. I may have to pony up and buy it for science.

Reply 39 of 41, by darry

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I uploaded some more samples of vcgs4mv4 4MB soundfont being used to playback game tracks . Re: Noisy AWE64 recording from any input (line in, EMU8000 MIDI, etc) + upcoming AWE64 comparison