Deunan wrote on 2020-06-15, 13:38:

A couple of days to make the payment is normal too. Some people plan ahead, wait for their wages to come, not notice they won the auction right away. Sure, the seller doesn't have to be happy about that but that's part of doing business.

usually I always pay after purchasing... sometimes in the same evening, only if I am still waiting for other auctions of the same seller to finish I wait with payment, but if it's more than 1 day I always contect them and tell them that.

I get that your financial situation can make it difficult, but as long as you're communicating to the seller that it's going to take a few days for payment that should be fine.

same the other way around, I often get messages "oh I'll only be able to ship this out next week" and I'm totally fine with that and happy they told me and I don't have to sit here and wonder why it didn't get sent yet x3

Deunan wrote on 2020-06-15, 13:38:

So, again, chill out. Or just stop dealing with people (but then be prepared to pay for the service in online shops).

Or just stop dealing with people like you who are too lazy and too slow to understand how business really works. That simple. Take your negative seller's rating and go on your merry way.

imi wrote on 2020-06-13, 16:37:

Tetrium wrote on 2020-06-13, 15:40:

There is one good thing about the higher prices though and that is that it is nowdays more worth it to repair instead of bin it and just buy a cheap replacement part.

that's a good point ^^ yeah

unfortunately (imho) a lot of people are in it for the money, so it got incredibly hard to even get a good deal on scrap lots nowadays, when I would pick up a box full of "scrap" ISA cards it would be €20-30, maybe €50 if it was a lot... but now they go for upwards of €200 as soon as there's something good in there even though chances are none of it may work (though ISA period hardware is pretty resilient), idk if scrappers are really bidding that much on those lots or those are pure resellers (cause they usually only have bids on scrap lots, and a lot of them), I don't think any normal collector would buy this many scrap lots for those prices each month.

Obviously people will be in it for the money and these people will help increase prices by 2-fold: First they will occupy a portion of the available parts (as obviously the vast majority of these parts will keep declining in numbers due to not being produced anymore) and secondly because they may actually (try to) make their own market more popular, increasing interest and also the number of collectors (so fewer parts for each collector).

And actually, collectors themselves may be part of this 'problem'. I know I'm not gonna be popular saying this but it's hard to argue that someone interested in actually using the hardware will have no interest in the hardware when it is not rare, where for a collector part of the incentive to collect may be due to its rarity or its popularity. And the interest in collecting 5 year old computer parts (for the sake of collecting that is) that are common and can be found all over the place may be way less interesting from a collectors standpoint. But for someone who simply likes to play around with this hardware, better availability and lower prices are actually gonna be an advantage.

I would like to point out that these categories are not as black and white as I am portraying them here, it's for a large part just grey area.

Miphee wrote on 2020-06-15, 15:03:

Or just stop dealing with people like you who are too lazy and too slow to understand how business really works. That simple. Take your negative seller's rating and go on your merry way.

Well then, I hope all your clients treat you in the way you just described. And with that said I think this is getting personal so I'll just stop.

You should've stopped before the rest of that nonsense but it better late than never.

I always pay on an auction site within 24 hours if I win, usually as soon as I get a notification. There really is no reason to wait a few days or a week to pay someone, no matter what the person bidding thinks, there is no real good excuse. Too many it is not a business but something they do on the side, like me and would rather take the second bid if they paid in 24hours instead of waiting a week and not sure if I have to relist the item . Yes there are those that it is a business but still is it right to wait or hold off a payment ? There are Bidoholics, alcoholics, and gamblers that work on "waiting till my next paycheck" to cover that bill.... just saying.

I think it is unrealistic to hope for a common frame of reference on pricing that everyone involved will buy into. In any "collectible" field you have all of the following and more:
- completionists who need one of everything and whose willingness to pay for it is proportional to the gap in the collection that an item will fill, and how impatient they've become
- new hobbyists looking for something cheap after a 5 minute search
- new hobbyists who did 4 hours of internet homework per item and have concluded that only the absolute best will do
- individuals seeking a sense of nostalgia by buying something they owned as a child or in early adulthood
- aforementioned individuals who want nostalgia but also the things they couldn't afford before
- individuals afflicted with 'keeping up with the Joneses' disease
- serious hobbyists willing to sink the same $ into this hobby that another person might sink into a sports car, boat, or travel
- hobbyists with plenty of time and not much money, who will trade their time for a good deal
- hobbyists with very little time but enough money to prioritize "known good" components they don't need to fiddle with
- and, of course, people looking to make money--this is either a job or a side gig

Each of the above will have different motivations and in my opinion there's no point in pushing anyone to change their priorities. So, not only do I not mind pricing being all over the place, I in fact expect it. I also don't mind sellers choosing to go after a particular audience, or seeking to maximize their income given the above mix of participants. I figure sometimes that will lead me to stumble across a great deal, and in other cases it'll leave me hopelessly outbid. Regardless I might as well keep my calm since I can't bend the market to my own priorities; the only things I can control are (a) the things I do in my life to generate income to afford these purchases and (b) my own sense of what I'm willing to pay for an item or, put differently, the opportunity cost of purchasing it vs. doing something else with the same money.

What if I am not a new hobbyist who sinks 4 hours of time into researching things I am not super familiar with already? This has lost me a few items I really wanted... like the time I could have bought a lot that had a Cyrix 5x86 133. I hesitated and somebody else snatched it up.
And I also like to get the nicer items I couldn't and/or had no idea they even existed back then.

But I do not like paying high prices for things either. There are very few items I have actually spent any serious money on... and the few that I did were because of wanting those very specific items and knowing that they really never, ever pop up... things I have generally been trying to find for a long time.

When seller ships to the incomplete address and the packet is returned to him and then expects me to pay for another shipping! He blames eBay automatic label printing and now this is somehow my fault. My address hasn't changed and all the other sellers could print the label just fine... since I want the item, I'll need to cover the shipping again 😠

I'll throw my 2 cents on this topic.

I never found online listings for retro hardware appealing (whether it's eBay or some other auction site) because of the high shipping costs (even for small items). Not to mention the ludicrous offers that pop up from time to time. It just doesn't financially make sense for me to pay $30+ shipping for a $10 ISA/PCI/AGP card. Items outside Europe (from the US for e.g) are subject to VAT + import duties as well.

Instead, I get all my retro hardware from two trusted sources:

1. Friends and/or school (for the young ones in this hobby) - this is by far the best source of retro hardware because, even if the items you are getting tend to be generic/not so desireable, they are usually FREE. This is how I built up most of my collection.

2.Local flea markets (or recycling centers) - another great source of hardware. Because you have all kinds of people selling at flea markets (not just your circle of friends), there is a higher chance that you'll see valueable hardware. The best part is that, unlike online ads, you get to see the item in your hands and thoroughly inspect it before purchase and you don't have to pay any shipping price and wait for shipping (when you pay for it, it becomes yours instantly)

I am aware that you have a much higher chance of finding a specific item online, but just like in a flea market, it will be a waiting game until you get a good deal/find your desired item.

kixs wrote on 2020-06-16, 07:25:

When seller ships to the incomplete address and the packet is returned to him and then expects me to pay for another shipping! He blames eBay automatic label printing and now this is somehow my fault. My address hasn't changed and all the other sellers could print the label just fine... since I want the item, I'll need to cover the shipping again 😠

What about when the buyer has the wrong shipping address and then the item gets returned to me and then the buyer expects me to reship to their correct address without them paying for shipping?

If the seller screws up -> he/she should have to cover shipping again. If the buyer messes up -> he/she should have to cover shipping again.
I once messed up as a buyer and I was proactively writing the seller and requesting to tell me how to cover shipping fees again.
I would expect the same from a seller who messes up.

Personally I use a well known online auction house for parts I can't find somewhere else but prefer flea markets and classifieds.

yep, but ebay's address system is also a total mess.

I have addresses in multiple countries, but ebay isn't smart enough to let me shop in each country I have an address in, so I have to change my default address to whatever country I want to buy something from if the seller doesn't offer international shipping.
but for some reason the ebay system can't manage only making the chosen shipping address visible to the seller... so sometimes I chose a different address on checkout, and they send it to the one I have currently set as default anyways.

and other times I occasionally buy something from my local country, but have the default address is still set to germany for example, and if the seller sends me the checkout before I select an address it is locked to my default address and I can't change it to another country anymore... it is really annoying.
it works if I can request the total amount from the seller with the correct address, but for some reason a lot of sellers have that feature turned off, which also makes it impossible to request a total when buying multiple items from one seller... always have to write them seperately in that case.

imi wrote on 2020-06-16, 15:32:

yep, but ebay's address system is also a total mess. […]
Show full quote

yep, but ebay's address system is also a total mess.

I have addresses in multiple countries, but ebay isn't smart enough to let me shop in each country I have an address in, so I have to change my default address to whatever country I want to buy something from if the seller doesn't offer international shipping.
but for some reason the ebay system can't manage only making the chosen shipping address visible to the seller... so sometimes I chose a different address on checkout, and they send it to the one I have currently set as default anyways.

and other times I occasionally buy something from my local country, but have the default address is still set to germany for example, and if the seller sends me the checkout before I select an address it is locked to my default address and I can't change it to another country anymore... it is really annoying.
it works if I can request the total amount from the seller with the correct address, but for some reason a lot of sellers have that feature turned off, which also makes it impossible to request a total when buying multiple items from one seller... always have to write them seperately in that case.

Seems like it would be a significant overhaul of their system to accommodate a small number of people like yourself who have residences in multiple countries.

babtras wrote on 2020-06-17, 02:47:

Seems like it would be a significant overhaul of their system to accommodate a small number of people like yourself who have residences in multiple countries.

Many people (myself included) have freight forwarder addresses which are very helpful when international shipping is not provided or to save costs on international shipping by consolidating several packages in a single shipment. So I don't think it's a small number of people. In any case, if tweaking the site in order to simplify multiple address management is so difficult, then that aspect seems to be poorly designed.

This use to be a poor mans hobby.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-06-17, 09:02:

This use to be a poor mans hobby.

Indeed. Between 2001 to 2008 all hardware collecting I did was through donations. And I got some cool stuff that way.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-06-17, 09:02:

This use to be a poor mans hobby.

That's because people are too damn impatient and want everything at once. They want huge collections but barely use them. Sellers know this and set the price accordingly. They know that impatient people will drive the price up because there is always a guy who is willing to pay way too much. No price is ridiculous if someone is willing to pay it.
The more these people buy the less they are satisfied with their purchase. They chase the "shopping high" they get when they buy/win a piece of hardware. I'm also guilty of this sometimes so I spend a lot on overpriced hardware instead of waiting for a good opportunity to turn up.
If people think outside the Ebay/auction box then it's not that expensive at all. Dumpster diving, flea markets, shady guys who clean up houses after evictions, all good sources for 90's hardware and sometimes even older. It's pure luck and it's a slow process but that's how poor guys get retro hardware. That's how I got free hardware as a kid with no money.
It also doesn't hurt to think ahead: people are throwing away s478, s939, s754 systems all the time, you can always find a P4 system in the dumpster where I live. They are worthless. Give it 20 more years and people are going to complain that P4 systems are too expensive to get.

Miphee wrote on 2020-06-17, 11:11:

That's because people are too damn impatient and want everything at once. They want huge collections but barely use them. Seller […]
Show full quote

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-06-17, 09:02:

This use to be a poor mans hobby.

That's because people are too damn impatient and want everything at once. They want huge collections but barely use them. Sellers know this and set the price accordingly. They know that impatient people will drive the price up because there is always a guy who is willing to pay way too much. No price is ridiculous if someone is willing to pay it.
The more these people buy the less they are satisfied with their purchase. They chase the "shopping high" they get when they buy/win a piece of hardware. I'm also guilty of this sometimes so I spend a lot on overpriced hardware instead of waiting for a good opportunity to turn up.
If people think outside the Ebay/auction box then it's not that expensive at all. Dumpster diving, flea markets, shady guys who clean up houses after evictions, all good sources for 90's hardware and sometimes even older. It's pure luck and it's a slow process but that's how poor guys get retro hardware. That's how I got free hardware as a kid with no money.
It also doesn't hurt to think ahead: people are throwing away s478, s939, s754 systems all the time, you can always find a P4 system in the dumpster where I live. They are worthless. Give it 20 more years and people are going to complain that P4 systems are too expensive to get.

I think people are just intrigued with the 8088, macintosh, 286, 386 and 486 computers.
But getting one of these computers to preform great in game play is not easy.
Its more of a challenge to get a good working computer.

Your best bet for good game play is a 1st gen Pentium 133 thru 233
Anything slower is not going to satisfy your or meet your game play needs.
So people are try to find a good dos gaming computer in the 486 and slow where it will never meet there needs.
The 486 or slower cpu just does not have enough processing power to play dos game in good performance.
With a 1st gen Pentium built you can slow it down to 386 and 486 speeds simply by disabling cache in bios.
So you can play a large assortment of dos games in good performance.

Back in 1993 computer builders were selling 486dx-33 computer with 4mb ram and 2x cdrom as multimedia computers.
This build was under powered to be a good multimedia computer.
You need at least 8mb of ram and a 486dx-66 would be better.

Computer manufactures where just pushing the limits of the hardware.
They used the bare minimum hardware and called it a multimedia computer.

Its like today with 4k gaming computers.
The hardware is too expensive.

My biggest disappointment I ever had was when I ordered a pristine violet DOL-001 NTSC GameCube from USA to Germany. The item that arrived was heavily damaged and had a different serial number than the one in the listing. I opened a case with eBay and made the stupid decision to not use tracking when sending back the item. I have no idea why I was so stupid. The seller claimed he never received the GameCube and eBay believed him. That adventure cost me about 150€ (Gamecube + taxes + 2x shipping). As you can imagine, I was super angry both at this guy and at me.

I made an elaborate plan to scam this guy back, but his account was closed some time later for unknown reasons. One thing that I noticed and that got me thinking was that the sender's address was different than the one he gave me to send the GameCube back to. Two years later I watched this talk and I have the suspicion that I have been involved in such a mule scam, which would also explain why the serial numbers didn't match up.

Besides that I have had several cases with auctions from USA where the sellers cancelled auctions _after_ I won them. I had no idea that was possible and apparently it only works in the States.

What I also hate is what a gamble eBay Kleinanzeigen (German classified ads) is. People generally only accept Paypal Friends. I've had two issues since that rating system was introduced and in both cases the feedback button didn't appear, so I didn't even get some satisfaction for ruining their rating. 😁

imi wrote on 2020-06-16, 15:32:

yep, but ebay's address system is also a total mess. [...]

Hey, that sounds familiar.