boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-04, 20:57:

Added the Prometheus Aria! Just go the first page of the thread (you'll have to scroll down quite a bit).

Very cool! It's nice to hear how the Aria compares to the others. I have a similar card and haven't gotten around to getting it fully tested yet (I think I was running into speed sensitivity issues).

I have two questions for you:

What were the specs of the system you tested the Aria on.
and
What driver did you use in Windows 3.1 for these tests?

Also, this isn't terribly important but would it be possible to add a small note to the soundcloud pages for the Aria recordings that mentions that they were done in Windows 3.1 with Media Player due to the lack of support for the Aria in those games? I just see myself forgetting this at some point and trying to figure out why my card won't play music like that in-game. 🤣

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2020-05-05, 06:26:

Very cool! It's nice to hear how the Aria compares to the others. I have a similar card and haven't gotten around to getting it […]
Show full quote

Very cool! It's nice to hear how the Aria compares to the others. I have a similar card and haven't gotten around to getting it fully tested yet (I think I was running into speed sensitivity issues).

I have two questions for you:

What were the specs of the system you tested the Aria on.
and
What driver did you use in Windows 3.1 for these tests?

Also, this isn't terribly important but would it be possible to add a small note to the soundcloud pages for the Aria recordings that mentions that they were done in Windows 3.1 with Media Player due to the lack of support for the Aria in those games? I just see myself forgetting this at some point and trying to figure out why my card won't play music like that in-game. 🤣

I used my regular test bench for ISA cards and DOS/Windows 3.1: a 486SX-66 with 16MB RAM. I used the installation disk from vogonsdrivers. At the beginning of the DOS install process, the program asks if you want to install Windows drivers, and I selected yes. All in all, the process was very smooth.

I'll try to add the info to Soundcloud when I get a chance.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-05, 14:21:

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2020-05-05, 06:26:

Very cool! It's nice to hear how the Aria compares to the others. I have a similar card and haven't gotten around to getting it […]
Show full quote

Very cool! It's nice to hear how the Aria compares to the others. I have a similar card and haven't gotten around to getting it fully tested yet (I think I was running into speed sensitivity issues).

I have two questions for you:

What were the specs of the system you tested the Aria on.
and
What driver did you use in Windows 3.1 for these tests?

Also, this isn't terribly important but would it be possible to add a small note to the soundcloud pages for the Aria recordings that mentions that they were done in Windows 3.1 with Media Player due to the lack of support for the Aria in those games? I just see myself forgetting this at some point and trying to figure out why my card won't play music like that in-game. 🤣

I used my regular test bench for ISA cards and DOS/Windows 3.1: a 486SX-66 with 16MB RAM. I used the installation disk from vogonsdrivers. At the beginning of the DOS install process, the program asks if you want to install Windows drivers, and I selected yes. All in all, the process was very smooth.

I'll try to add the info to Soundcloud when I get a chance.

Thank you for all the time you put into this project. This is one of my most-visited threads on Vogons. Any time someone posts in it I have to check it out. Apparently I'm an Obscure Wavetable Soundcard Addict... 🤪

boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-04, 20:57:

Added the Prometheus Aria! Just go the first page of the thread (you'll have to scroll down quite a bit).

Very cool. I really need to start my Aria 16 unboxing / review article and maybe video but haven't had the chance to do so.

Planning on putting it up on my so far non-existent web page / blog.

I've got 2 NIB (still sealed) and another boxed as well as either 1 or 2 bare cards.

The boxed ones are all different models so this will be a fun project.

I've also go the source code for the AIL driver for the Aria 16.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2020-05-06, 14:32:

Thank you for all the time you put into this project. This is one of my most-visited threads on Vogons. Any time someone posts in it I have to check it out. Apparently I'm an Obscure Wavetable Soundcard Addict... 🤪

I'm glad to hear it. I actually have to go back to this thread to remember some of the stuff I used to know about certain synths and chipsets but have forgotten over the years!

I used to be a pretty avid collector of 8-bit video games, and most of my time and money went into that retro universe, but ISA sound cards have clearly taken over as my own obsession.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-06, 15:58:

Very cool. I really need to start my Aria 16 unboxing / review article and maybe video but haven't had the chance to do so. […]
Show full quote

boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-04, 20:57:

Added the Prometheus Aria! Just go the first page of the thread (you'll have to scroll down quite a bit).

Very cool. I really need to start my Aria 16 unboxing / review article and maybe video but haven't had the chance to do so.

Planning on putting it up on my so far non-existent web page / blog.

I've got 2 NIB (still sealed) and another boxed as well as either 1 or 2 bare cards.

The boxed ones are all different models so this will be a fun project.

I've also go the source code for the AIL driver for the Aria 16.

Can't wait to see the photos! Can you tell me if any of the boxes claim how many voices the wavetable has? I usually put this info in the thread, but I couldn't locate it for this synth.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-06, 16:36:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-06, 15:58:

Very cool. I really need to start my Aria 16 unboxing / review article and maybe video but haven't had the chance to do so. […]
Show full quote

boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-04, 20:57:

Added the Prometheus Aria! Just go the first page of the thread (you'll have to scroll down quite a bit).

Very cool. I really need to start my Aria 16 unboxing / review article and maybe video but haven't had the chance to do so.

Planning on putting it up on my so far non-existent web page / blog.

I've got 2 NIB (still sealed) and another boxed as well as either 1 or 2 bare cards.

The boxed ones are all different models so this will be a fun project.

I've also go the source code for the AIL driver for the Aria 16.

Can't wait to see the photos! Can you tell me if any of the boxes claim how many voices the wavetable has? I usually put this info in the thread, but I couldn't locate it for this synth.

The Viva Multimedia Maestro 16 VR box states 32 voices for the synthesizer.

The Prometheus Aria 16 doesn't specifically state that but it compares it to a SB 16 and a PAS 16 saying that it supports 32 voices while the other 2 support only 20.. referring to the OPL3.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-06, 19:04:

The Viva Multimedia Maestro 16 VR box states 32 voices for the synthesizer.

The Prometheus Aria 16 doesn't specifically state that but it compares it to a SB 16 and a PAS 16 saying that it supports 32 voices while the other 2 support only 20.. referring to the OPL3.

32 sounds right. I'll go with that. I was able to find a photo of another boxed Aria--someone is asking $700 for an Aria 16se--but there was no mention of voices on the Prometheus OEM box.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-06, 20:11:

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-05-06, 19:04:

The Viva Multimedia Maestro 16 VR box states 32 voices for the synthesizer.

The Prometheus Aria 16 doesn't specifically state that but it compares it to a SB 16 and a PAS 16 saying that it supports 32 voices while the other 2 support only 20.. referring to the OPL3.

32 sounds right. I'll go with that. I was able to find a photo of another boxed Aria--someone is asking $700 for an Aria 16se--but there was no mention of voices on the Prometheus OEM box.

Heh.. the Aria 16se is the boxed one I have that is not sealed. And somehow I missed the specs on the front of the box of both the 16 and the 16se... says "32 Operator Wavetable Synthesizer"

$700 for a boxed one? CRAZZZZZYYY. Pretty sure I didn't pay over $50 or $60 for even the sealed ones. That was a couple years ago though.

The Aria 16 is sealed.. but it was a store return to Fry's Electronics in December 1993 so it was resealed by them.

Went back to the Sound Blaster Live! in the roundup because of Vogons user Joseph_Joestar's method of using Audigy 2 ZS drivers with the card, allowing you to use VxD drivers and large soundfonts in DOS games launched from Windows. I recorded using an excellent 47MB soundfont based on the Roland SC-55. Anyone thinking about investing in an AWE32 with 32MB of RAM just to load a smaller soundfont will want to check this out first.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-06-07, 21:55:

Went back to the Sound Blaster Live! in the roundup because of Vogons user Joseph_Joestar's method of using Audigy 2 ZS drivers with the card, allowing you to use VxD drivers and large soundfonts in DOS games launched from Windows. I recorded using an excellent 47MB soundfont based on the Roland SC-55. Anyone thinking about investing in an AWE32 with 32MB of RAM just to load a smaller soundfont will want to check this out first.

Wow, what a difference!

Since you've obviously put a ton of time into testing these things, I'd like your opinion. Aside from pure-DOS compatibility, do you see benefits to using other synths versus something like this? If the games someone wants to play will run in a DOS box under Win 9x, do you lose any effects\quality with this Live setup compared to, for example, a Roland SC55, SCC-1, DB60XG, Maxi Sound GT64, Soundscape S2000 Elite, Reveal SoundFX Wave or other similar high end hardware wavetable card?

Obviously, we love the variety of having scads of quirky synths anyway... this is more of a question of the average retro PC gamer that wants the "best" experience in games, as long as they work in Win 9x of course...

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2020-06-12, 04:35:

Wow, what a difference!

Since you've obviously put a ton of time into testing these things, I'd like your opinion. Aside from pure-DOS compatibility, do you see benefits to using other synths versus something like this? If the games someone wants to play will run in a DOS box under Win 9x, do you lose any effects\quality with this Live setup compared to, for example, a Roland SC55, SCC-1, DB60XG, Maxi Sound GT64, Soundscape S2000 Elite, Reveal SoundFX Wave or other similar high end hardware wavetable card?

Obviously, we love the variety of having scads of quirky synths anyway... this is more of a question of the average retro PC gamer that wants the "best" experience in games, as long as they work in Win 9x of course...

I should say that I'm probably not the best judge of effects and quality when it comes to these synths. I don't play any musical instruments and don't think I have a particularly keen ear. I just know what I like. I think it's important to be able to hear them all and decide for yourself. That said, I think it's fair to say that there are pretty clear tiers of quality. I'd put Roland and Yamaha at the top, no surprise. But I wouldn't think it strange if someone preferred the Ensoniq Soundscape S-2000, Korg, or one of the higher-end Dream synths to those two. I'd rather have a daughterboard with those synths than this Live! soundfont.

But that's not really a fair comparison because this thread is supposed to help us do a cost-benefit analysis. You can buy a Live! card for $10. You can then get an ISA SB16 or a YMF719 with OPL3 and a wavetable header for $20-$30. That's a lot of versatility for $30-$40. People spend $150 or more to get a CT2760, CT3900, or CT3980 to get the chance to load SMALLER soundfonts and have SB16 compatibility, OPL3, and a wavetable header. If I were just starting out, I would go the Live! + ISA OPL3 route with the option of adding a high-end daughterboard later if the big soundfonts lose their luster.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2020-06-12, 04:35:

If the games someone wants to play will run in a DOS box under Win 9x, do you lose any effects\quality with this Live setup compared to, for example, a Roland SC55, SCC-1, DB60XG, Maxi Sound GT64, Soundscape S2000 Elite, Reveal SoundFX Wave or other similar high end hardware wavetable card?

I've been using Patch93's SC-55 soundfont for about 5 months now. And while I don't have a real SC-55, I did listen to a number of recordings on YouTube and other places for comparison. From my perspective, the echo/reverb effects sound better on a real SC-55 and certain instruments are slightly different. But overall, the soundfont is reasonably close to the real thing, at least to my ears.

As mentioned above, the real benefit is that you can get this functionality from a SBLive card, which are cheap and readily available. I'd love to own a real SC-55, but those are hard to come by where I live, and it would cost me a small fortune on shipping and customs fees to import one from abroad.

Added a wavetable that I've wanted for a long time: the original Creative Labs Wave Blaster, CT1900. See entry on Page 1 of this thread.

Hi! Can you upload the drivers for REVEAL / SOUND FX WAVE (SC500)?

I've just bought this which seems identical to yours, but can't seem to find the precise drivers online.

c0burn wrote on 2020-06-18, 19:02:

https://i.postimg.cc/wMgR4y8v/image.png […]
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Hi! Can you upload the drivers for REVEAL / SOUND FX WAVE (SC500)?

I've just bought this which seems identical to yours, but can't seem to find the precise drivers online.

Extract the contents of the attached file to a directory entitled SOUND16, then use these lines in your autoexec and config:

autoexec:
rem *reveal sc500*
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
SET SOUND16=C:\SOUND16
C:\SOUND16\sndinit /b
SET PATH=C:\;%PATH%
PATH %PATH%;C:\SOUND16

config:
rem DEVICE=C:\SOUND16\cdsetup.sys /T:X (for CD use)

I also think that UNISOUND will work with this card.

Thanks!

This thread is a lot of fun! Thanks for all the work here. Some of these cards sound god-awful, but some sound surprisingly good!

newtmonkey wrote on 2020-06-19, 16:20:

This thread is a lot of fun! Thanks for all the work here. Some of these cards sound god-awful, but some sound surprisingly good!

Thanks! It's a lot of fun to put together, and the god-awful synths are a big part of that fun, believe it or not.

I would say that one key takeaway is that any card that has the Crystal CS4112-CS ROM is going to be a nice starter card because it can usually be found for less than $50 (there are some available right now that are NOS for that price). To me, this is preferable to all the AdMOS synths and Creative's EMU8K. For hardware wavetable, you have to get to the Ensoniqs and Yamahas to come close to overall quality, and that's because the ROM has those stolen Roland samples (compressed).

So I've got an Ensoniq Soundscape S-2000, but it doesn't sound quite like your recording — At least for the "FX 5 (brightness)" instrument (the F-F#-G#-F#-F at the start), mine sounds more like the related Reveal SoundFX Wave 32. I'm wondering if different S-2000s came with different ROMs? And if mine has the same ROM as the SoundFX?

Here's a ROM extraction tool, for anybody feeling adventurous. For the record, my ROM:
CRC32: 9fdc4825
MD5: bd34e5abe3e4dd028194b902e811b8fb

100000000  53 44 47 49 00 00 00 01  00 00 00 01 00 00 00 40  |SDGI...........@|
200000010  00 1f fd be 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
300000020  4a 61 6e 20 30 35 20 31  39 39 33 20 56 31 2e 30  |Jan 05 1993 V1.0|
400000030  30 20 0a 47 45 4e 4d 49  44 49 32 20 32 4d 58 38  |0 .GENMIDI2 2MX8|
500000040  20 43 6f 6d 70 72 65 73  73 65 64 0a 41 75 64 69  | Compressed.Audi|
600000050  6f 20 53 61 6d 70 6c 65  20 44 61 74 61 20 43 6f  |o Sample Data Co|
700000060  70 79 72 69 67 68 74 20  28 63 29 20 31 39 39 32  |pyright (c) 1992|
800000070  20 45 6e 73 6f 6e 69 71  20 43 6f 72 70 2e 2c 20  | Ensoniq Corp., |
900000080  41 6c 6c 20 52 69 67 68  74 73 20 52 65 73 65 72  |All Rights Reser|
1000000090  76 65 64 0a 53 6f 75 6e  64 20 50 72 6f 67 72 61  |ved.Sound Progra|
11000000a0  6d 6d 69 6e 67 20 42 79  20 44 72 65 77 20 4e 65  |mming By Drew Ne|
12000000b0  75 6d 61 6e 6e 2f 44 72  6f 6f 4d 75 73 69 63 20  |umann/DrooMusic |
13000000c0  26 20 42 69 6c 6c 20 4d  63 43 75 74 63 68 65 6f  |& Bill McCutcheo|
14000000d0  6e 2f 45 6e 73 6f 6e 69  71 00 0a 2a 00 00 00 a8  |n/Ensoniq..*....|

My Soundscape is old and busted and probably needs new capacitors. There's barely any sound output: to hear it, I take powered desktop speakers, turn them all the way up, and shove them into my ears as if they were headphones. Point is: There's a lot of noise, not a lot of signal, so it's hard to make a more detailed comparison.