maxtherabbit wrote on 2020-06-18, 21:30:

I got my extron rgb HDMI 300 for like 25$

Very nice !!
At this price, there is no debate 😉
I wish i found mine at this price. But they're very rare in Europe.

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Did some more tests with the OSSC (in pass-through mode) together with the CP-254 . I could not get 1152x864 @60Hz or 70Hz, whatever I tried (I started with proper VESA timings in Powerstrip and matched the in the OSSC), but always get no picture .
1024x768@60Hz and at 70Hz do work, but I lose about 2 pixels on the left size if I follow VESA timings to a T . This also happens in DOS (720x400), but is on the left side instead . In either case, playing with sync, porch and active pixels lets me move the image sideways and switch the cutoff from side to side but not increase the horizontal image size . (maybe I'm doing it wrong, though). My guess is that the CP-254 masks some lines .

Here is a photo of the CYP CP-254 PCB

Some more interesting info .
The firmware for the Crestron HD-SCALER-VGA-E contains a reference to Cypress (CYP) and to the CP-293N . That would help explain why the HD-SCALER-VGA-E accepts 1024x768@70Hz (just tested), even though it is not documented in its manual . This resolution happens to be the only 70Hz one supported by the CYP CP-293N, according to its manual . As mentioned before in this thread, I also suspect 1024x768@70Hz input will work on the Startech VGA2HDPRO2, even if it is not documented as I believe it is probably similar to the CP-293N .
However, as none of these scalers support 640x400@70Hz or 720x400@70Hz as input, so they are not really useful to us .

I disassembled my defunct Gefen VGA To DVI Scaler Plus (EXT-VGA-2-DVISP) and I found a sticker mentioning CP-252GM v4.0 on a socketed W79E632A40PL micro-controller with flash that I was, unfortunately, unable to dump (TL866II Plus does not support it and it is probably read protected anyway) . Now this may have absolutely nothing to do with CYP and just be a huge coincidence, but considering that the CYP CP-252 just happens to be a VGA to DVI converter that supports 720x400@70Hz as input, just like Gefen VGA To DVI Scaler Plus, I have my doubts . To be fair, the Gefen unit supports only 60Hz output whereas the CYP does 70Hz at 1024x768 and 1152x864 .

The more I look, the more I see roads that seem to lead to CYP in the VGA to DVI/HDMI scaler market . Not that this is a bad thing, as CYP's stuff seems well designed, built and functional (and they have a very responsive sales department) but it does imply that there is probably much less of a variety of products on the market than one would originally have assumed . Also, if CYP does not happen to currently make a product with a feature you want (e.g. 640x400@70Hz scaling to 1600x1200@70Hz), chances are nobody else does (not taking into account OSSC).

EDIT: Corrected typos

darry wrote on 2020-06-19, 07:35:

Some more interesting info . The firmware for the Crestron HD-SCALER-VGA-E contains a reference to Cypress (CYP) and to the CP- […]
Show full quote

Some more interesting info .
The firmware for the Crestron HD-SCALER-VGA-E contains a reference to Cypress (CYP) and to the CP-293N . That would help explain why the HD-SCALER-VGA-E accepts 1024x768@70Hz (just tested), even though it is not documented in its manual . This resolution happens to be the only 70Hz one supported by the CYP CP-293N, according to its manual . As mentioned before in this thread, I also suspect 1024x768@70Hz input will work on the Startech VGA2HDPRO2, even if it is not documented as I believe it is probably similar to the CP-293N .
However, as none of these scalers support 640x400@70Hz or 720x400@70Hz as input, so they are not really useful to us .

I disassembled my defunct Gefen VGA To DVI Scaler Plus (EXT-VGA-2-DVISP) and I found a sticker mentioning CP-252GM v4.0 on a socketed W79E632A40PL micro-controller with flash that I was, unfortunately, unable to dump (TL866II Plus does not support it and it is probably read protected anyway) . Now this may have absolutely nothing to do with CYP and just be a huge coincidence, but considering that the CYP CP-252 just happens to be a VGA to DVI converter that supports 720x400@70Hz as input, just like Gefen VGA To DVI Scaler Plus, I have my doubts . To be fair, the Gefen unit supports only 60Hz output whereas the CYP does 70Hz at 1024x768 and 1152x864 .

The more I look, the more I see roads that seem to lead to CYP in the VGA to DVI/HDMI scaler market . Not that this is a bad thing, as CYP's stuff seems well designed, built and functional (and they have a very responsive sales department) but it does imply that there is probably much less of a variety of products on the market than one would originally have assumed . Also, if CYP does not happen to currently make a product with a feature you want (e.g. 640x400@70Hz scaling to 1600x1200@70Hz), chances are nobody else does (not taking into account OSSC).

EDIT: Corrected typos

Hi !
I'm a non native english speaking, so it is a bit difficult to understand, but i think i got the point.
To resume : do you think there is a way to buy somewhere the cheapest VGA HD scaler made or clone of the CYP "official" one and flash it with a better/adapted firmware ?
Somewhere we might expect to have a good product with a Darry/Vogons custom firmware 😉

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Prez wrote on 2020-06-19, 08:24:

Hi ! I'm a non native english speaking, so it is a bit difficult to understand, but i think i got the point. To resume : do you […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2020-06-19, 07:35:

Some more interesting info . The firmware for the Crestron HD-SCALER-VGA-E contains a reference to Cypress (CYP) and to the CP- […]
Show full quote

Some more interesting info .
The firmware for the Crestron HD-SCALER-VGA-E contains a reference to Cypress (CYP) and to the CP-293N . That would help explain why the HD-SCALER-VGA-E accepts 1024x768@70Hz (just tested), even though it is not documented in its manual . This resolution happens to be the only 70Hz one supported by the CYP CP-293N, according to its manual . As mentioned before in this thread, I also suspect 1024x768@70Hz input will work on the Startech VGA2HDPRO2, even if it is not documented as I believe it is probably similar to the CP-293N .
However, as none of these scalers support 640x400@70Hz or 720x400@70Hz as input, so they are not really useful to us .

I disassembled my defunct Gefen VGA To DVI Scaler Plus (EXT-VGA-2-DVISP) and I found a sticker mentioning CP-252GM v4.0 on a socketed W79E632A40PL micro-controller with flash that I was, unfortunately, unable to dump (TL866II Plus does not support it and it is probably read protected anyway) . Now this may have absolutely nothing to do with CYP and just be a huge coincidence, but considering that the CYP CP-252 just happens to be a VGA to DVI converter that supports 720x400@70Hz as input, just like Gefen VGA To DVI Scaler Plus, I have my doubts . To be fair, the Gefen unit supports only 60Hz output whereas the CYP does 70Hz at 1024x768 and 1152x864 .

The more I look, the more I see roads that seem to lead to CYP in the VGA to DVI/HDMI scaler market . Not that this is a bad thing, as CYP's stuff seems well designed, built and functional (and they have a very responsive sales department) but it does imply that there is probably much less of a variety of products on the market than one would originally have assumed . Also, if CYP does not happen to currently make a product with a feature you want (e.g. 640x400@70Hz scaling to 1600x1200@70Hz), chances are nobody else does (not taking into account OSSC).

EDIT: Corrected typos

Hi !
I'm a non native english speaking, so it is a bit difficult to understand, but i think i got the point.
To resume : do you think there is a way to buy somewhere the cheapest VGA HD scaler made or clone of the CYP "official" one and flash it with a better/adapted firmware ?
Somewhere we might expect to have a good product with a Darry/Vogons custom firmware 😉

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Custom or patched firmware would be awesome, but is well beyond the scope of my expertise so far .

Firmware for these devices is quite similar in function between "clone" models and it is likely stored on read-protected MCUs, so not easy to extract and probably not worth trying to crossflash anyway (unless to correct a specific bug). EDIT: Then there would be the legal aspect to consider, so probably really not worth it .

What I meant to say about CYP is that since so many devices seem to be designed/made by them, they are sort of a reference and if they do not offer a feature, it is probably not available on other brand products either .

If you have specific questions or if I am still unclear, feel free to PM me . I speak French .

What was the shortcoming of the Startech VGA2HDMIPRO (original) again?

I bought the Atlona "clone" to compare and will report back once it arrives. It seems to be more available than the Startech.

boxpressed wrote on 2020-06-19, 17:22:

What was the shortcoming of the Startech VGA2HDMIPRO (original) again?

I bought the Atlona "clone" to compare and will report back once it arrives. It seems to be more available than the Startech.

I remember seeing some comments about output needing colour post-processing for proper/best output . Not a problem when capturing, not ideal when playing .
70Hz output only available at 1024x768 (manual for VGA2HDMI Pro says it works, manual for AT-HD500 does not mention any 70Hz output, never seen somebody mention trying that, though). Issue only for playing, not capturing .
Scaling reportedly not as sharp as the Extron RGB-DVI 300 (and HDMI variants) .

EDIT: Added difference between VGA2HDMI Pro and AT-HD500 manual

EDIT2: The colour issue was actually commented on by you, 🤣 . (Re: What are the best Vga to hdmi scalers or peripherals for MS-DOS games ?)

Is the Atlona or any other clone available for sale on Aliexpress?

darry wrote on 2020-06-19, 17:44:

EDIT2: The colour issue was actually commented on by you, 🤣 . (Re: What are the best Vga to hdmi scalers or peripherals for MS-DOS games ?)

Yes, I should have added besides that issue, 🤣.

appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-19, 17:55:

Is the Atlona or any other clone available for sale on Aliexpress?

Not that I could find . I even looked through your local Ebay affiliate (had to use a VPN), but could not find any .

Just to be clear, the confirmed clones (as far as PCB layout goes, firmware differences are unknown) are :

Startech VGA2HDMI Pro
Atlona AT-HD500

Suspected clone :
CYP SY-P293 (I have one on order)

Unfortunately, the purchased adapter does not display 720x400 @ 70Hz 🙁 although the manual says otherwise.

CJ Grass wrote on 2020-06-23, 13:34:

Unfortunately, the purchased adapter does not display 720x400 @ 70Hz :( although the manual says otherwise. https://i.ibb.co/tYt […]
Show full quote

Unfortunately, the purchased adapter does not display 720x400 @ 70Hz 🙁 although the manual says otherwise.

Holy f*ck 🙁

CJ Grass wrote on 2020-06-23, 13:34:

Unfortunately, the purchased adapter does not display 720x400 @ 70Hz :( although the manual says otherwise. https://i.ibb.co/tYt […]
Show full quote

Unfortunately, the purchased adapter does not display 720x400 @ 70Hz 🙁 although the manual says otherwise.

The problem with the cheap adapters is that they often overpromise and underdeliver, that is modes advertized as working do not work.

The problem with the expensive adapters/scalers is that some of them support modes that are not documented in the manual (like 720x400@70Hz), but the adapters/scalers are usually so expensive that almost nobody will buy one just to try it (except maybe me, though I have poured way too much money into this already 😉 ).

Hi all !
I received this Mini VGA2HDMI and as previously advertised, and despite its description on Aliexpress, it doesn't work at all in VGA dos mode 720x400 70Hz.
In fact its a clone like many others very cheap VGA2HDMI just working in 50/60Hz range. Despite this, i noticed the picture is clean under Windows.

Not so much components, but still a little more than usual, and the metal case is VERY heavy. Its not a bad product after all, just it doesn't do what they say it will !

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Try it on a range of systems and video cards before you call it "good" usually those things are highly vulnerable to signal noise

For anyone thinking of getting an Atlona AT-HD500 , a Startech VGA2HDMIPRO or CYP SY-P293 , be aware that though they all look to be based on the same design (see pictures in linked thread), not all firmware versions support 70Hz output and at least mine seems to want to output NTSC luma levels rather than full range .

See this post Re: VGA Capture Thread and those preceding it in the thread .

Hi all !

Just received another VGA2HDMI cheap device that works great under DOS mode 70Hz !

I will upload a video of Doom working on it.
It seems to be this one :
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32692452101.ht … .46f47ed3pf2rTs

Best regards
Philippe Dubois

Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSGxz3aLZpQ

Interesting 😀 Could I request a test? My unit has a signal lag of around 50ms. Can you determine (even roughly) what kind of lag that has?

I recognised the lag easily because I have speakers hanging directly off the computer, as well as the audio line running through the adapter to the TV. So the delay is plain to hear. Using this video as a reference, the delay effect at 50ms is the closest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3_b4UEYoWM