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Apple is getting off Intel CPU’s ?

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Reply 220 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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spieler8 wrote on 2020-06-27, 20:37:

how overpriced high-end workstations are...

Overpriced compared to what? You can’t really compare them to self-built PCs, and high quality workstations from other workstation vendors are not exactly cheap either.

My to mention that once you start configuring them to order, the cost of upgrades (such as those crazy Xeon workstation CPUs) makes the initial price of the chassis kinda irrelevant.

Reply 221 of 547, by Bruninho

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As a web designer, it still is relevant to stay on Mac because Adobe is working on porting their apps to new macs, and my comfortable workflow is very much based around Adobe apps. But I haven't heard a word on how to run a local web development without using a virtualization solution - I'd rather keep doing what I do today, setting up homebrew so I can use apache, PHP, Mysql, from homebrew instead of the native Apple versions which existed until Mojave, because every OS update used to break it and I had to spend a considerable time setting it up all over again. With the homebrew version, nothing breaks up past any update so I can keep doing my work. The big question is web local development. But my design and coding tools, they will be there for sure.

As a gamer, not having Windows x86, be it with BootCamp or virtualization, is a deal breaker. Not that I have many AAA titles, since I have not been doing serious sim racing these recent years. However, I would like to be still able to play rFactor 2, for example. Emulation is far from a good solution for this. For light/casual caming, I have QEMU for Win 9x games and Wineskin Winery for some steam games such as Counter Strike, so at least the minimum low end gaming is guaranteed. It's the high end gaming that worries me about in this transition. Just when I finally managed to have RACE07 (GTR Evo's sequel), CS 1.6, NASCAR Racing 2003 and Championship Manager 3 working as ports on mac from Wineskin Winery, Apple drops the F-Bomb and announces a new transition...

Having 2 different laptops (an intel laptop and an Arm Mac) is not a solution to me and is undesired because I have been looking for a way to have only one machine, only one laptop with the best of both worlds. Not to mention how terrible it is to carry two laptops around with me. Therefore the ball is on VMware/Parallels park to make their play and find a way for x86 virtualization on Arm Macs. I doubt very much that QEMU's emulation will suffice for it, no matter how powerful the Arm Mac can possibly be.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 222 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-27, 21:30:

But I haven't heard a word on how to run a local web development without using a virtualization solution - I'd rather keep doing what I do today, setting up homebrew so I can use apache, PHP, Mysql, from homebrew instead of the native Apple versions which existed until Mojave, because every OS update used to break it and I had to spend a considerable time setting it up all over again. With the homebrew version, nothing breaks up past any update so I can keep doing my work. The big question is web local development. But my design and coding tools, they will be there for sure.

The UNIX/command line tools will be available for sure.

Reply 223 of 547, by Bruninho

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-27, 21:56:

The UNIX/command line tools will be available for sure.

That would be a big relief for me. If it's true, then it's just virtualization of x86 Windows the only issue remaining for me.

My workplace will face a big issue with the transition anyway - The 2012 MacBook Pro I use there (at least I used it before the COVID-19 struck in) is not eligible for the Big Sur upgrade, so I will have to keep working on it with macOS Catalina for the time being, and I don't think my boss would like to try out the patcher if dosdude1 makes one. We have two iMacs stuck on High Sierra and 2 MBPs stuck on Catalina. All other macs (as far as I can remember there are more three macs) are eligible for Big Sur. That's 50% of our Macs left behind by that new macOS release.

But I will for sure try out the patcher with my home iMac and Mac Mini. My MBP is eligible for the upgrade.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 224 of 547, by Intel486dx33

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I think Apple customers who do high end processing in video editing value there time. So the less time they spend editing and rendering a video is most important for them. If they can do it with a 32-core AMD CPU and dual graphics cards for half the cost of a NEW Base model Mac Pro and in 1/2 the time they would rather select that path.

Reply 225 of 547, by ShovelKnight

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-06-27, 23:06:

I think Apple customers who do high end processing in video editing value there time. So the less time they spend editing and rendering a video is most important for them. If they can do it with a 32-core AMD CPU and dual graphics cards for half the cost of a NEW Base model Mac Pro and in 1/2 the time they would rather select that path.

Lol.

Having worked in a company that had clients in broadcast and video production, I can tell you with a very high degree of confidence that while individual freelancers might as well go this route, production houses would never touch anything that isn't supported by a major vendor.

Reply 226 of 547, by Intel486dx33

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-27, 23:12:
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-06-27, 23:06:

I think Apple customers who do high end processing in video editing value there time. So the less time they spend editing and rendering a video is most important for them. If they can do it with a 32-core AMD CPU and dual graphics cards for half the cost of a NEW Base model Mac Pro and in 1/2 the time they would rather select that path.

Lol.

Having worked in a company that had clients in broadcast and video production, I can tell you with a very high degree of confidence that while individual freelancers might as well go this route, production houses would never touch anything that isn't supported by a major vendor.

I mean a 16-core AMD 3950x.

Reply 227 of 547, by Bruninho

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-27, 23:12:

Lol.

Having worked in a company that had clients in broadcast and video production, I can tell you with a very high degree of confidence that while individual freelancers might as well go this route, production houses would never touch anything that isn't supported by a major vendor.

True.

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"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 228 of 547, by Intel486dx33

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-27, 23:21:
ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-27, 23:12:

Lol.

Having worked in a company that had clients in broadcast and video production, I can tell you with a very high degree of confidence that while individual freelancers might as well go this route, production houses would never touch anything that isn't supported by a major vendor.

True.

Yes, that’s corporate and home user will not buy a $11,000 Pro display Either.

Reply 229 of 547, by Bruninho

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I was agreeing with ShovelKnight, anyway.

Corporate will buy it if they have the resources and the professionals to do a proper work on it.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 230 of 547, by The Serpent Rider

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It's complicated, some may use workstations from HP, for example. That said, video and broadcast production is usually not very enthusiastic on changing infrastructure for new shiny things. So if they were mostly using Apple for several years or even decades, they still will choose Apple.
I think there also was huge split after Final Cut Pro X drama, which moved some pros to Adobe and other stuff, even if it was still confined within Mac platform. Similar stuff happened in audio production too. Apple could be losing some pro clients in the near future, if custom ARM performance is too anemic for production.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 231 of 547, by appiah4

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Businesses do not migrate from one infrastructure/architectute to another unless there is a significant cost or performance incentive.

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Reply 232 of 547, by spieler8

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-06-28, 01:16:

I think there also was huge split after Final Cut Pro X drama, which moved some pros to Adobe and other stuff, even if it was still confined within Mac platform.

That's what I was thinking about. It's not that within one blink of a moment everything goes bonkers, but rather that maybe Apple itself sees the future in consumers and not neccessarily in pro users (just compare Mac sales vs iphone/ipad sales).

As for overpriced: That's a huge debate in itself, but $699 for the Mac Pro Wheels is quite expensive. As for the hardware itself or if your are into hardware repair: Louis Rossman's youtube videos are very interesting. Confirms my personal experience with these machines...

Reply 233 of 547, by Jo22

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spieler8 wrote on 2020-06-27, 20:37:

I realyl think Apple is more and more moving away from pro customers. When Jobs took over, Apple really found a niche with pro-customers & artists, i.e. Sound, Video, FX etc.

Strange. I thought professional users discovered Macs by the mid-late 80s to early 90s, after Jobs left.
If memory serves, developers had to "hide" the Macintosh II project from Mr. Jobs until it was finished,
because they feared he would intervene and cancel development.

Speaking of Mr. Jobs, he apparently was no philanthropic in Apple's early days, rather akn to Mr. Torwalds.
I could imagine, that not all of the employees were unhappy when he left.

Also, Apple was a much friendler/less agreesive company in the times when Mr. Jobs was absent. Less sucessful and near bankruptcy, but friendlier IMHO.
The company lead several research projects in that time frame, which *could* have contributed positively to society utlimatively..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlfTDlgAl_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bjve67p33E

Anyway, I'm no believer of Scientology or the Church of Apples also. So maybe I'm wrong.
I also have NO experience in hero worship, by the way.

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 234 of 547, by Dominus

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I'm rather annoyed with the Steve Jobs worship and the Tim Cook "devilization".

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Reply 235 of 547, by Bruninho

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The fact is that Jobs had the best ideas, and Cook has the worst ones. Jobs knew how to sell them.

And as for Apple was a better place when Jobs wasn’t around.. I bet the employees were happy when Apple was losing money and throwing a confusing product line in Scully and Amelios era... (sarcasm intended here).

Cook is doing the same mistakes. The iPad/iPhone lineup is getting confusing like the early 90s macs again.

No doubt they had to kick Jobs out in mid 80s, his management was overly aggressive, but being fired was good for Jobs to grow up, get some insight and learn a few things that made him the brilliant man he was when he returned in 97/98.

He was still aggressive, tuned it down a bit, but the reputation he had for that hasn’t changed, and this time around there were employees that learned from that and saw it as a motivation to deliver great things, instead of going to a corner and cry because he “harassed” them with insults, if something wasn’t how he wanted it to be. I actually liked his managerial style. Cook has zero leadership and actually looks like someone lost in a lost island.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 236 of 547, by BetaC

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-28, 16:08:
The fact is that Jobs had the best ideas, and Cook has the worst ones. Jobs knew how to sell them. […]
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The fact is that Jobs had the best ideas, and Cook has the worst ones. Jobs knew how to sell them.

And as for Apple was a better place when Jobs wasn’t around.. I bet the employees were happy when Apple was losing money and throwing a confusing product line in Scully and Amelios era... (sarcasm intended here).

Cook is doing the same mistakes. The iPad/iPhone lineup is getting confusing like the early 90s macs again.

No doubt they had to kick Jobs out in mid 80s, his management was overly aggressive, but being fired was good for Jobs to grow up, get some insight and learn a few things that made him the brilliant man he was when he returned in 97/98.

He was still aggressive, tuned it down a bit, but the reputation he had for that hasn’t changed, and this time around there were employees that learned from that and saw it as a motivation to deliver great things, instead of going to a corner and cry because he “harassed” them with insults, if something wasn’t how he wanted it to be. I actually liked his managerial style. Cook has zero leadership and actually looks like someone lost in a lost island.

I’ll give you the whole thing about the iPhone lineup being a mess thanks to three different models all being the same basic phone, but the iPad lineup makes sense if you pretend the iPad Air is just the top model for the base iPad instead of its own thing. That’s still dumb.

I personally think the problem is a lot more related to them only really having competition in the phone space, and even then, they aren’t truly threatened thanks to the iPhone being just as much a status symbol as a great-selling device. Sure, Amazon is trying their damnedest with the Fire Tablets, but there really isn’t a market for tablets outside of the iPad. They haven’t been competitive with specs for their computers outside of the Pro recently, but they also don’t need to be there, since the majority of people buying Apple computers aren’t the kind that actually care about their i7 being a dual core in 2020.

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Reply 237 of 547, by Bruninho

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Makes perfect sense. But as for the pro market, we’ve talked about the professionals (video, photo editing, design, cad artists, architects, and so on) that use the mac pros versions before in this thread so I’m sure Apple is not neglecting them in their transition.

I have both the Firestick TV and the AppleTV 4K. The first on the kitchen TV and the second is on my cinema room. The FireTV isnt bad but I just use it for Netflix. But on AppleTV I get Kodi, Netflix, Youtube, everything. And I have watched the topics of interest from WWDC there. Amazon no doubt does some good products (Alexa, Firestick) but for other things its a bit... bland.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 238 of 547, by Bruninho

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https://www.cultofmac.com/715487/wedding-phot … mac-pro-setups/

Check out the setup for this pro photographer! I’d die if I had 56TB! But given that he has to work with high quality photography, it’s a must have.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.
READ: Right to Repair sucks and is illegal!

Reply 239 of 547, by BetaC

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-29, 03:38:

Makes perfect sense. But as for the pro market, we’ve talked about the professionals (video, photo editing, design, cad artists, architects, and so on) that use the mac pros versions before in this thread so I’m sure Apple is not neglecting them in their transition.

I have both the Firestick TV and the AppleTV 4K. The first on the kitchen TV and the second is on my cinema room. The FireTV isnt bad but I just use it for Netflix. But on AppleTV I get Kodi, Netflix, Youtube, everything. And I have watched the topics of interest from WWDC there. Amazon no doubt does some good products (Alexa, Firestick) but for other things its a bit... bland.

You don't need to tell me, I work at a TV Station that has a few inexplicably placed iMacs that reporters seem to use for editing purposes. They aren't in every room, so I think it's a by request thing. They're also old enough to have disc drives, which makes things even more confusing.

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