VOGONS


First post, by yawetaG

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I have a sound editor for a Korg MIDI module (AG Sound Editor for the Korg AG3/AG10) that will only work in Classic Mac OS and OS X Classic Mode. However, it installed something called MIDI Management that requires my Mac to have a serial modem or serial printer port, while it only has USB, Firewire, and a regular modern modem/telephone port. So it can't find my USB MIDI interface.

After some reading up on things, I have concluded that it could work using the following:
- OMS (Open MIDI System) software, which I fortunately have two version of on CD.
- Mac OS Classic-compatible MIDI interface with a OMS driver.
- Possibly a OMS-compatible driver for the sound editor (this is not really clear to me).

The Mac is a Powerbook, so no slots to install a "true" Mac serial port device into except for a PCMCIA PC Card slot.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by yawetaG on 2020-06-16, 18:19. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 10, by lolo799

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There's a MacOS 8/9 driver for the Prolific PL2303 usb/serial adapter on the Prolific website.
Not sure it works fine in OS X Classic.

Roland has a MacOS 9 driver for the UM-1 usb/midi adapter as well.

Might worth trying one of those, but are you running OS X or 9 on your Powerbook?

PCMCIA Sound, Storage & Graphics

Reply 2 of 10, by yawetaG

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OS X. Classic mode emulates a Mac OS 9.2 installation, but apparently not all OS 9 drivers for MIDI interfaces will work in Classic.

The procedure to follow is like this:

  1. Install sound module editor and Apple MIDI Management (a really old MIDI software that serves as a virtual patchbay). Must be installed into Mac OS 9 Extensions folder.
  2. Install OMS (Open MIDI System) 2.3.8.
  3. Find special Opcode MIDI Manager Driver that lets Apple MIDI Management talk to OMS (available here - note: you need to register to get it) and install it as follows: a) Unpack using Classic version of Stuffit Expander, which can be found in the Mac OS 9 Applications folder in the Internet Utilities folder (/Alladin etc.). Using the Mac OS X version to expand the file will corrupt it. b) Copy it into the Mac OS 9 system folder (has an icon with a "9" in it). c) Restart Classic.
  4. Find MIDI interface that uses USB, has Mac OS 9 or earlier OMS driver, and that can be recognised in OS X Classic mode (both interface and driver). Install them. Put OMS driver in correct folder.
  5. Configure AG sound editor to use special Opcode MIDI Manager Driver in Apple MIDI Management. You do this by starting the AG Sound Editor after doing the previous step with the Opcode MIDI Manager Driver. OMS will ask to be configured at that point. Do that.
  6. Edit: Works with an old MIDIMan MidiSport 2x2 USB interface (the yellow and blue one). Got it working as follows: Connect USB interface. Boot Mac, observe how OS X can't see interface. Start Classic, watch LEDs on interface flash. Add USB interface to OMS via "MIDI cards and interfaces"-option, reboot Classic. See interface show up everywhere properly.
  7. Then the interface needs to be set up properly in OMS. Connect MIDI controller and module to interface while everything is off. Let OMS detect devices. Since the Korg module and my keyboard are not in OMS' library of devices, set them up manually. Use the "Test setup"-option to test the keyboard (OMS will play a message if it receives MIDI) and the module (module will play notes).
  8. Configure PatchBay. Double-click the OMS special driver icon, set the MIDI controller as a source, and the MIDI module as a destination. Connect the AG Sound Editor OUT to the OMS IN port for the module. Connect the OMS OUT port for the MIDI controller to the same IN port. Save the patch so the settings don't get lost.
  9. Edit #2: The trick to get everything working was the following: OMS expects that each MIDI device connected to the MIDI interface uses both an IN and OUT port. So I had connected the MIDI controller (my Roland JV35) to the MIDI A ports, and the module to the MIDI B OUT port. For some reason either the OMS driver for PatchBay or PatchBay itself cannot handle this and connecting the ports together in PatchBay doesn't cause the MIDI to flow. The solution was to hook up the Korg module to MIDI OUT A on the MIDI interface and change the routing in PatchBay accordingly. Then everything started to actually work.
  10. Pray it all works immediately.

Really a straightforward, painless, simple procedure that is much better than on PCs from the same time (<= I'm being ironic, it's a pain in the ass).

For the MIDI interface, I already have a preferred option because I own a driver CD with all drivers from that manufacturer and have read on the web that their old interfaces will work in Classic mode (so MidiMan MidiSport yellow and blue USB interfaces work).

I will update this post as I get along towards getting this working.
Quite a bit later it finally works...

Last edited by yawetaG on 2020-07-12, 17:22. Edited 12 times in total.

Reply 3 of 10, by BetaC

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lolo799 wrote on 2020-06-16, 08:52:
There's a MacOS 8/9 driver for the Prolific PL2303 usb/serial adapter on the Prolific website. Not sure it works fine in OS X Cl […]
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There's a MacOS 8/9 driver for the Prolific PL2303 usb/serial adapter on the Prolific website.
Not sure it works fine in OS X Classic.

Roland has a MacOS 9 driver for the UM-1 usb/midi adapter as well.

Might worth trying one of those, but are you running OS X or 9 on your Powerbook?

There's actually issues with that driver not allowing you to install it if you download directly from Roland. some file attributes, or something along those lines, were lost at some point in the last 20 years.

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Reply 4 of 10, by yawetaG

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I am not planning on using a Roland interface, but will try something from M-Audio. This suggests at least some of their interfaces work from Classic mode: http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38964

I plan to first test my MidiMan MIDISport 2x2 Anniversary Edition, since according to this thread it works under OS 9 for some people: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,280.0.html (even though the Anniversary Edition has no specific OS 9 driver; I'll try the driver for the pre-Anniversary one). Let's see if it also works in OS X Classic mode.

If that fails, I'll have to get an older version of the interface.

Edit: Can't get the Anniversary Edition to work with Classic. Getting the driver was quite difficult too, as M-Audio screwed up their legacy products downloads and the driver on my CD-ROM was for Mac OS 8.6 and pre-USB versions of the MIDISport. Finally found it at the same site as the OMS MIDI Manager driver.

Last edited by yawetaG on 2020-06-17, 12:15. Edited 4 times in total.

Reply 5 of 10, by lolo799

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I noticed that isssue with the Roland driver after downloading it, yes.
The readme also specifically says that it doesn't work in Classic mode under OS X.
An other possible solution, i have a pcmcia serial card by Socket Comm that is supported directly in MacOS 7.5 according to the box and manual, might work in 9 and Classic too...

PCMCIA Sound, Storage & Graphics

Reply 6 of 10, by yawetaG

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So...the information on the web that MIDIMan's old yellow and blue MIDISport USB interfaces work from OS X Classic mode is correct!

However, the interface may appear dead at first in OS X because it is not USB midi class-compliant. Only upon starting Classic mode (with the correct drivers installed) it will do something (LEDs will flash).
Then, the MidiSport needs to be added to OMS, and Classic needs to be restarted before the interface is fully usable.

After that, it's possible to continue setting everything up. I've updated the earlier post to show up to where I've managed to come until now. It's all very complicated.

Reply 7 of 10, by yawetaG

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Jesus, setting that up was a total pain in the ass. I think I must have sunk 20-30 hours of work into getting this to work (1 MIDI controller, 1 MIDI interface, 1 MIDI module) - modern MIDI setup on a Mac is so much easier.

(Post updated again, it finally works.)

The AG Sound Editor is pretty cool, although I still have to figure out how to access the user bank on the Korg module to actually be able to play my edited sound from my MIDI controller (regular presets do work, so...). All the parameters can be changed real-time, the various envelope generators can be edited via sliders or by adjusting the graphical representation of the envelope (and in much more detail than on most General MIDI modules), and there's some interesting parameters (frequency modulation of the pitch among others...). I fiddled only about half an hour with it, and managed to make a evolving pad quite easily...

Also amusing: The birdsong preset, which sounds "off" with its default settings and outright nightmarish once you add some modulation actually is made up of two copies of "cricket song" 🤣

Reply 8 of 10, by BetaC

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-07-12, 17:08:

Also amusing: The birdsong preset, which sounds "off" with its default settings and outright nightmarish once you add some modulation actually is made up of two copies of "cricket song" 🤣

That's hilarious.

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Reply 9 of 10, by yawetaG

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-06-16, 16:57:
  • Edit #2: The trick to get everything working was the following: OMS expects that each MIDI device connected to the MIDI interface uses both an IN and OUT port. So I had connected the MIDI controller (my Roland JV35) to the MIDI A ports, and the module to the MIDI B OUT port. For some reason either the OMS driver for PatchBay or PatchBay itself cannot handle this and connecting the ports together in PatchBay doesn't cause the MIDI to flow. The solution was to hook up the Korg module to MIDI OUT A on the MIDI interface and change the routing in PatchBay accordingly. Then everything started to actually work.

Actually, I believe this bit may be due to my PowerBook's USB ports. The range it belongs to is somewhat notorious for underpowered USB ports that don't deliver enough juice to non-powered USB devices to do their thing. And the MIDISport is non-powered...so it probably gets enough juice to be detected properly by the driver, but not enough to power the MIDI ports. I will test this by connecting the MIDI module's MIDI OUT to the MIDISport's MIDI IN B port, with the OUT B port connected to the module, next time I set up the whole lot for testing.

Concerning the problem that I can't play the modified sounds from my MIDI controller keyboard, that might be because the edited patches are loaded into a specific bank on the module (drum bank) if I read the MIDI specifications right.

Reply 10 of 10, by bifo86

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yawetaG wrote on 2020-06-15, 06:06:

I have a sound editor for a Korg MIDI module (AG Sound Editor for the Korg AG3/AG10) that will only work in Classic Mac OS and OS X Classic Mode.

I hate to necro this thread, but my old account was banned and this one doesn't have enough posts to send PMs. I have two ADB powerbooks and an AG-10, did you ever upload this software anywhere? I can't find it on vogondrivers, archive.org, or either macintoshrepository or macintoshgarden.