I've got weird hypothetical questions 😀 Currently, I own Compaq Evo n400c which is nice for DOS and so on, but I'm also interested in some Win games like Quake, Unreal and Half-Life. But no matter what I did I wasn't able to run these games without visual artifacts so it looks like this videochip is trash for these Win games. Videocard in this laptop is ATI Mobility M1. And soon I'll get my hands on Dell Latitude C610 which is packed with ATI Mobility M6, I wonder if its better chip supporting more functions and better drivers?

vorob wrote on 2020-06-29, 07:27:

I've got weird hypothetical questions 😀 Currently, I own Compaq Evo n400c which is nice for DOS and so on, but I'm also interested in some Win games like Quake, Unreal and Half-Life. But no matter what I did I wasn't able to run these games without visual artifacts so it looks like this videochip is trash for these Win games. Videocard in this laptop is ATI Mobility M1. And soon I'll get my hands on Dell Latitude C610 which is packed with ATI Mobility M6, I wonder if its better chip supporting more functions and better drivers?

Well, it’s a mobility M1 - it’s similar to the Riva128 in that their texture filtering is blurry, and their blending mode is limited (multi-texturing is often an issue with artifacts galore). You can try Z’s collection of M1 drivers and see if there are improvements...but I kinda doubt it - when it isn’t wrong it’s slow, when it is slow it’s often also wrong ->

http://www.oocities.org/ziyadhosein/rprow98.htm

As for the M6, it’s a DirectX7/8 chip - basically a Radeon 7500 but without a fixed function T&L engine. It’s okay for non-shader Direct3D games. Here it is on a Thinkpad X31 running Unreal Tournament 2004SE.

Thanks ragefury32! Just received this laptop, but no charger was with it. Since I’m terribly impatient person I’ve made up my own charger from another Dell adapter:

And yes, it’s M6 and Thief II, Deus Ex, Unreal works just fine.

Next thing is to get this sound chip working under native DOS.

vorob wrote on 2020-07-02, 06:22:

Thanks ragefury32! Just received this laptop, but no charger was with it.
Next thing is to get this sound chip working under native DOS.

Not going to happen - The Crystal CS4205 is AC97 only. The last Dell C-series with DOS sound support is the C600/Inspiron 4000 and the C810/Inspiron 8100.

Oooops, that's a fail... But i guess it still has sound in win 98 and at least I'll be able to launch dos games from there.

vorob wrote on 2020-07-02, 07:41:

Oooops, that's a fail... But i guess it still has sound in win 98 and at least I'll be able to launch dos games from there.

Yeah, if you want Tulatin P3m + i830MP + Radeon M6 + DOS compatible sound, that's the Compaq Evo N600c.

Any DOS games that are impossible to run from Win98?

vorob wrote on 2020-07-02, 20:51:

Any DOS games that are impossible to run from Win98?

These are some I absolutely could not get running (by no means a complete list):
- Project Paradise
- I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream
- Another World

And if I remember correctly, "Blam! Machinehead" also didn't like the Win98 Dosbox.

Maybe this post is useful:
Re: Windows 95 or 98 for MS-DOS Games

vorob wrote on 2020-07-02, 20:51:

Any DOS games that are impossible to run from Win98?

On a Tulatin P3? Yeah, a few.

- Any games that run too fast and cannot be effectively clocked down using setmul will be impossible to play...(Pentium III Tulatins don't have too many downclocking options)
i.e:
Test Drive 3
Wing Commander 1 and 2

- Anything that has its own memory manager and won't play ball within Win98
i.e:
Wing Commander Privateer
Strike Commander

I am sure there are others.

ragefury32 wrote on 2020-07-02, 17:12:

Yeah, if you want Tulatin P3m + i830MP + Radeon M6 + DOS compatible sound, that's the Compaq Evo N600c.

I'll put it in another way, I need the most powerful laptop that still supports native dos sound. What will it be? I see N600C on sale around 22USD, good buy? I also see N610C, if it still supports DOS sound maybe it's better to go there since it's Pentium 4 already 😀

vorob wrote on 2020-07-13, 13:52:

ragefury32 wrote on 2020-07-02, 17:12:

Yeah, if you want Tulatin P3m + i830MP + Radeon M6 + DOS compatible sound, that's the Compaq Evo N600c.

I'll put it in another way, I need the most powerful laptop that still supports native dos sound. What will it be? I see N600C on sale around 22USD, good buy? I also see N610C, if it still supports DOS sound maybe it's better to go there since it's Pentium 4 already 😀

In terms of good CPU/GPU/chipset balance and value for money? n600c.
There are laptops out there with higher clocked CPUs, but the DOS compatibility is due to the use of either an Ali or Via chipset that uses integrated video (NEC LaVie J from 2000, or the Toshiba Satellite Pro 6000), which means that it's not great for gaming.

There is also the Dell Latitude C810/Inspiron 8100, which is Tulatin based, have upgradeable GPUs (all the way to a Quadro 4 700 Go), but it's i815EP based, so a bit older. That machine is also big, heavy and a bit pointless for mobile gaming.

Okay, bought N600C for 15 USD 😀 No info other than "it's working, the condition is good". N600C always come with ATI M6? No intel gma trash?

Here's my 2 cents: any K6-II laptop that matches your size requirements. Most K6-2 laptops run either the VIA MVP4 chipset with a Trident Blade 3D / Blade XP video card and ESS sound card or even a dedicated S3 Savage mobile chip. The Trident Blade 3D on board video witch has perfect dos compatibility and will 3d wise it can play quake 2 @ 640x480 at good framerates. It has good direct 3D and openGL support. The S3 Savage has perfect dos compatibility and rather good 3d capabilities considering it's paired with a K6. Some K6 laptops come with a SiS chipset with means you get a Sis 305 video card with again great DOS compatibility. Either way you can't go wrong. Can't speak for build quality or keyboard tough.

Another plus is that you can replace the K6-2 with a regular socket 7 pentium since the K6-2 (K6-2+ or K6-III+ usually come in laptops) is always socketed. Some machines allow for 2.8v - others don't. In any case you can use setmul to slow it down. You could even experiment with a Tillamook if you can get your hands on one.

Here is my old post with good laptops Old laptops 386, 486, P1, P3 - all with DOS audio and good specs - TFT screens, floppy drives, sound cards. 386 to Pentium 3.

I think that that the laptop with best compatibility ever is Compaq Presario 1800 😀 (upper right on the photo) model number 18XL481 - be sure to look for that one or check the specs
MS-DOS to Windows XP compatibility

* Floppy drive
* CD/DVD drive
* TFT 1024x768 screen with -smooth scaling-
* DOS compatible ESS Solo 1 sound card (with good quality FM music, unlike ESS Maestro; you just need to load DOS driver)
* Very good JBL speakers (there is some noticeable bass and stereo width)
* Pentium 3 700 MHz
* 3D acceleration: Ati Rage 128 8MB, games like Half-life work flawlessly
* PCMCIA/Cardbus (Orinoco wifi in DOS or modern cardbus wifi card in 9x/XP)
* SVGA driver works in Windows 3.11
* Gameport if you can find a docking station
* ethernet, modem, USB, PS/2, VGA, COM, LPT, TV out

Videos:
DOS audio https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2rbHIj6SMlF … zVjQXQ0bFk/view
GTA 3 😀 (with some hack to run on 8MB VRAM) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2rbHIj6SMlF … V9ieWdYbXc/view

I have multi-boot with MS-DOS, Windows 3.11, Windows 9x, Windows XP, Linux and everything works great. Didn't use it in quite a while, but turned it on now and it still works.

Ye, this Compaq Presario 1800 sounds really good. Can anyone explain about FM music what I'll loose in terms of it on N600c?

vorob wrote on 2020-07-13, 20:47:

Can anyone explain about FM music what I'll loose in terms of it on N600c?

I didn't have this one and i'm not sure which sound card it has, probably ESS Allegro or ESS Maestro. I had ESS maestro for a while and it worked, but some notes in DOS music sounded out of tune or were skipped. Sound effects were fine.

BTW with Presario 1800 you can use buttons to set volume in DOS (it is in the first video).

Well, N600C is already bought for 15USD and I'll try fighting with it. Presario 1800 from what I see is 56USD. Maybe later...

Can you share your best M1 driver? Cause link posted here earlier with all M1 drivers is not working anymore 🙁

I just booted into Windows 98 (battery still holds a charge so didn't have to look for power brick 😀) and it has Mobility M3 installed (Mobility 128), driver dated 11-15-2001, ver. 4.13.7166. Maybe you will find the installer somewhere, I don't see it on the drive so I will need to check the backups.
For DOS/Win 3.11 i have UNIVBE installed somewhere (i don't remember the details, it probably is required for some games/win 3.11)

Update: this is what I was using, but it's M3, not M1: https://www.dell.com/support/home/drivers/dri … driverid=r36591

vorob wrote on 2020-07-13, 21:06:

Well, N600C is already bought for 15USD and I'll try fighting with it. Presario 1800 from what I see is 56USD. Maybe later...

Can you share your best M1 driver? Cause link posted here earlier with all M1 drivers is not working anymore 🙁

I also got a N600C today (and also on the lookout for a Presario 1800 now 😜). This site lists a number of drivers but without detailed descriptions, so no idea what some of them are. But the downloads come from ftp.hp.com so at least they should be trustworthy: https://www.helpjet.net/files-HP-Compaq-Evo-n600c.html

Edit: I'm trying to see if there are any other models that are close to the Presario 1800, so I can broaden my search. Any ideas if it was part of a range of models that had similar specs?

Edit II: I'm coming across numbers like 1800T, 1805, 1810, 1825 but I have no idea if and how they are different.

vorob wrote on 2020-07-13, 20:47:

Ye, this Compaq Presario 1800 sounds really good. Can anyone explain about FM music what I'll loose in terms of it on N600c?

You'll lose ESFM - which is a hardware OPL3 clone that was developed by ESS and was in their chips ending in the ESS Solo-1. The Maestros have software FM emulation, which can be both good and bad depending on the implementation and on specific apps using them. The biggest beef I had with the ESS Meastro is the lack of hardware button hook behavior in DOS. AFAIK, on both the Dell Inspiron 4000/C600 and the Compaq n600c, pressing the volume control/mute buttons on the chassis while in DOS will do exactly nothing to control audio volume.