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First post, by debs3759

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How much RAM can be cached with 256KB or 512KB cache on a PVI-486SP3 motherboard? I'm looking for maximum performance, but see no reason to max out the RAM is it can't all be cached. Is it the same on all boards with external cache? Does it depend on how much L1 cache the CPU has?

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.

Reply 1 of 6, by jakethompson1

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I'll let others correct me but this is my understanding of how it works.

A 256KB cache is 2^18 bytes. The cache is divided into 16-byte (2^4) lines to match the line size of the L1 cache. So, there are 2^18/2^4=2^14 lines in the cache.
That tells you that your tag RAM must have at least 2^14 entries, or 16KB for one-byte tags.

Now, as far as how much RAM can be cached? Take a look at the bits in the memory address:
4 bits are used to identify the byte within the 16-byte cache line.
14 bits are used to identify which cache line (486 caches are direct-mapped, so a memory address can either be at only one specific location in the cache or not in the cache at all at any given time - kind of like a hash table with no capability to handle collisions)
8 bits are used from the tag to identify the "rest" of a memory address that is occupying a cache line at that time. This is for a write-through cache, and that would give you 2^(4+14+8)=2^26=64MB cacheable area. The tag only being 8 bits is what limits the cacheable area.
For a write-back cache, one bit of the tag tends to be robbed as a dirty bit (that identifies whether the data in cache are newer than what are in RAM - an impossible situation for a write-through cache) cutting the cacheable area in half.

So you would get
64KB cache -> 16MB cacheable (write-through), 8MB cacheable (write-back); tag ram >= 4KB
128KB cache -> 32MB cacheable (write-through), 16MB cacheable (write-back); tag ram >= 8KB
256KB cache -> 64MB cacheable (write-through), 32MB cacheable (write-back); tag ram >= 16KB
512KB cache -> 128MB cacheable (write-through), 64MB cacheable (write-back); tag ram >= 32KB
1024KB cache -> 256MB cacheable (write-through), 128MB cacheable (write-back); tag ram >= 64KB

If the cache used a separate chip to track the dirty bits (mkarcher are you out there?) instead of robbing a tag bit the write-back cacheable area would be the same as write-through.

Reply 2 of 6, by debs3759

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jakethompson1 wrote on 2020-08-30, 15:30:

If the cache used a separate chip to track the dirty bits (mkarcher are you out there?) instead of robbing a tag bit the write-back cacheable area would be the same as write-through.

Thank you, that is all useful information. Not sure what the quoted text means in real terms, but it looks like 512KB cache in write-back with 64MB RAM will be the best. The board only supports up to 512K cache, with 128M RAM. 64MB with WB should be good enough for Win 95. Officially the board only supported FPM, which I have plenty of, but in another thread I remember someone saying it works with EDO, so I'll check what EDO I have.

Not sure whether the quoted part of your reply applies to this board, so I'll await replies from someone who knows more about this board.

I'm taking my time with this build as it's my first retro build in a long time (and I think I need to write a new set of DOS discs as there are problems with my originals). Once I have this up and running, I have loads more systems to build (100+ motherboards, but only about 16 cases).

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.

Reply 3 of 6, by Disruptor

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debs3759 wrote on 2020-08-30, 12:46:

How much RAM can be cached with 256KB or 512KB cache on a PVI-486SP3 motherboard? I'm looking for maximum performance, but see no reason to max out the RAM is it can't all be cached. Is it the same on all boards with external cache? Does it depend on how much L1 cache the CPU has?

To run PVI-486SP3 with full performance you have to run it with 2 banks of cache installed.
In my PVI-486SP3 I could not get the 2-1-1-1 timing stable with 512 KB in a single bank at 40 MHz.

Reply 4 of 6, by debs3759

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Disruptor wrote on 2020-08-30, 18:19:
debs3759 wrote on 2020-08-30, 12:46:

How much RAM can be cached with 256KB or 512KB cache on a PVI-486SP3 motherboard? I'm looking for maximum performance, but see no reason to max out the RAM is it can't all be cached. Is it the same on all boards with external cache? Does it depend on how much L1 cache the CPU has?

To run PVI-486SP3 with full performance you have to run it with 2 banks of cache installed.
In my PVI-486SP3 I could not get the 2-1-1-1 timing stable with 512 KB in a single bank at 40 MHz.

Does that mean for maximum performance I have to stick with 256KB? As I have not found a full manual online, I've not been able to get full details. I guess the 32-pin sockets are one bank, and the 28-pin are the other bank, so I need 8 28-pin 32Kx8 cache chips, which is what is already in it?

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.

Reply 5 of 6, by Disruptor

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Yes. That's the reason why I've picked another board for my big RAM 486.
Perhaps it could run with 2-1-1-1 at 33 MHz FSB.

We already have had this discussion here:
Re: Looking for 32Kx8 10ns 28-pin cache

Reply 6 of 6, by debs3759

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I had forgotten all about that thread, thanks. Was too ill to do anything for a couple of years 🙁

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.