SiS video is crap. But I think it should be enough for DOS.

I had graphical issues with tomb raider on my voodoo 2, I'm probably doing something wrong but I don't care, I have two voodoo 1. For carmageddon, with the beta voodoo 2 patch, I can assure you that the game runs on voodoo 2, banshee and voodoo 3. It probably works with v4 and v5 too.
A voodoo 3 will have an excellent video quality and excellent DOS compatibility for 2D.

Thanks for your reply, I guess my problem is that my system is too slow to run many of the later Windows glide games (possibly even with the eventual K6-3+ upgrade) so the main point of having the Voodoo is for the earlier ones most of which were DOS based. I've been lucky with my Voodoo 2 and didn't have any trouble with any of the games I tried so far. It's a shame there's not a good DOS compatibility list like we have here on Vogons for the Voodoo 2

Perhaps I'll give the SiS onboard video a go first

Nipedley wrote:

It's a shame there's not a good DOS compatibility list like we have here on Vogons for the Voodoo 2

There is!
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

Couldn't see your card though, But I would think you would be ok. We are spoilt with choice now, but back then video card wasn't really a deal breaker.
Why do you want USB though? If is for transferring files, I would recommend a network card, much easier IMHO

A network card requires you more things to do outside of the retro computer, but it works much better, is more practical, more compatible (you can even use the network with an 8088 ! USB can only go as low as late 486s) and offers more things (multiplayer, internet access if you want to, install your OSes from the network if you install a pxe boot rom + a boot server, etc)

I'm using a raspberry pi 2 as a small NAS/router/network boot server for all my retro PCs and it works really good ! My retro PCs can access to the samba share, and the new ones as well, it's almost like a drag and drop. And with this, I don't have to worry about incompatibilities, the formating, loosing my usb device, the speed of USB 1 etc ... Windows 98SE installs my 3com 3c905b-tx NIC out of the box, so once my windows is installed, all I need is to go on the samba share to take the drivers and install everything I need.

I should measure how long it takes me to completely install windows 98SE with access to the network, it could be interesting.

I actually have an ISA network card already (3c509 I believe?) it is super super slow though. I was thinking of using the extra PCI slot either for a ATA133 card or USB for better file transfers.

I'm transferring some games at the moment and it's taking about 3 hours for 3gb 😵

About the compatibility list, thanks for the link that's super interesting. I actually meant 3dfx DOS compatibility though, there's a compatibility matrix showing which are compatible with the Voodoo 2 but I haven't been able to find any such information for the Voodoo 3 (hence this thread)

Many thanks for your replies guys

The SiS should be fine in 2D mode. I've tested an SiS6326 AGP in DOS, and it's not horrible. The thing with DOS graphics performance is, even though you can measure differences between different chipsets, where the performance falls ends up being, "it's either smooth or it's not, no matter which graphics card you use".

I thought I'd update this thread with my findings.

I lost a little performance downgrading to the SiS 6205 onboard video in DOS, but the performance difference using the PCI ATA133 IDE adapter was enormous and made up for it.

I then upgraded to a Voodoo3, while my 3D benchmarks didn't change (233MMX isn't powerful enough to use it), the 2D scores are improved even over the S3 Virge. Image quality is noticeably better too. I plan to upgrade to a K6-3+ to use more of the Voodoo 3's capabilities in the future, and in the meantime I get good 2D, good 3D and good HDD performance and I'm happy 😀 All of the games I've tried so far have worked with my Voodoo 3 no problem.

Benchmarks attached

@Nipedley

Looking good. I like the performance gain on the PCI IDE controller!

isnt the quake result low for svga?

mrau wrote:

isnt the quake result low for svga?

True. I'm getting 14.2 with Voodoo3 2000 PCI on a P200MMX (on Intel Triton). But his 320x200 results are a couple frames higher than mine, as they should be. But I recall SiS chipsets are slower than Intel when graphics are bottlenecked, so that might explain it?

quite frankly i'm not so sure about this, i would have expected this to get this semi fluent; for reference someone here did 30fps on a ppro 200 in 640x480 with a g200

Okay, I have Quake results comparing Triton to SiS530 chipsets with P200MMX. Different video card though -- TNT2 M64 instead of Voodoo3. The Triton motherboard has no L2, the SiS has 512KB of L2.
320x200
Triton: 39.3 fps
SiS530: 45.1 fps (+15%)

360x480
Triton: 18.6 fps
SiS530: 20.3 fps (+9%)

640x480
Triton: 15.2 fps
SiS530: 14.4 fps (-5%)

15.2 without cache, that would kinda fit my expectations, yes; its weird that the sis slows things down so much.. like sths wrong

Could it be down to the motherboard chipset? It's an SIS 5511/5512/5513, it also officially has no support for the MMX processors or their voltages so I'm running it past it's intended usage here a fair bit

I'm also using more RAM than the motherboard can cache (128MB vs I believe a max of 64MB?). I intend to put in a K6-3+ at some point when I can find an adapter, which I believe will fix that issue?

It's the computer I grew up with so I'm quite happy with it how it is, just trying to get the most out of it 😀

Nipedley wrote:

Could it be down to the motherboard chipset? It's an SIS 5511/5512/5513, it also officially has no support for the MMX processors or their voltages so I'm running it past it's intended usage here a fair bit

I'm also using more RAM than the motherboard can cache (128MB vs I believe a max of 64MB?). I intend to put in a K6-3+ at some point when I can find an adapter, which I believe will fix that issue?

It's the computer I grew up with so I'm quite happy with it how it is, just trying to get the most out of it 😀

When equipped with maximum amount of 1MB cache the SiS5511 chipset can cache 256MB in wt or 128MB in wb mode. With 512KB both halve.

Sorry to revive this thread @Nipedley but I just recently got my hands on an IBM Aptiva 2176-F33 (A-2 with the ATI Mach64 video chip and single USB port.)

Your info on the Voodoo 3 was helpful in deciding which card to put in the machine for DOS gaming because the Mach64 has too many quirks (especially in Keen, scroll tearing...)
I also looked at Voodoo 2 cards but realized they don't do 2D and I need the second PCI slot for a NIC and not a dedicated 2D card (over the Mach64).

I'm super curious where you managed to find a 512K COAST module, it's impossible! and my machine currently has no cache chip at all...
I have a P2ooMMX on the way (it was cheap), does using it on this board overvoltage require a fan? (Also if it works well enough I'll probably pick up a 233)

I plan on upgrading to 128MB of ram, and also to 28MB of ram on the Sound Blaster AWE32 that came with the machine~

Thanks!

IcySon55 wrote on 2020-09-18, 20:50:

Sorry to revive this thread @Nipedley but I just recently got my hands on an IBM Aptiva 2176-F33 (A-2 with the ATI Mach64 video […]
Show full quote

Sorry to revive this thread @Nipedley but I just recently got my hands on an IBM Aptiva 2176-F33 (A-2 with the ATI Mach64 video chip and single USB port.)

Your info on the Voodoo 3 was helpful in deciding which card to put in the machine for DOS gaming because the Mach64 has too many quirks (especially in Keen, scroll tearing...)
I also looked at Voodoo 2 cards but realized they don't do 2D and I need the second PCI slot for a NIC and not a dedicated 2D card (over the Mach64).

I'm super curious where you managed to find a 512K COAST module, it's impossible! and my machine currently has no cache chip at all...
I have a P2ooMMX on the way (it was cheap), does using it on this board overvoltage require a fan? (Also if it works well enough I'll probably pick up a 233)

I plan on upgrading to 128MB of ram, and also to 28MB of ram on the Sound Blaster AWE32 that came with the machine~

Thanks!

This page has good detail on CPU upgrade options, good chance your going to have to upgrade the VRM though.
http://aptivasupport.com/uas/cpu/

If you need that PCI slot I'd just use a ISA NIC, yeh you'll be stuck at 10Mb but you'll be spending more time gaming then coping files I hope!
You could also look at a 3DFX Banchee, which is somewhere between a Voodoo 2 and 3. Although these are less common then a PCI Voodoo 3, just an alternitve.

Changing the VRM... oh boy, I'm having a hard enough time just finding a COAST module... (I want the 512K but there aren't any...)

I already have a Voodoo 3 3000 PCI on the way which I can use in other machines as needed but thanks for the input!

I found this website: http://9to5computer.com/Pricing/IBM%20Spare%2 … 0Index%2047.htm and it listed what I imagine are the two different VRM modules:
IBM Aptiva Voltage Regulator P54c Ap Mfr p/n 07H0973
IBM APTIVA Voltage Regulator P55c Mmx Mfr p/n 76H3658

The one in my machine currently is the very low profile/short VRM which I imagine is the 07H0973.
I also imagine it's not suitable for running the P200MMX... well crap...
I have seen a larger one in pictures and on YouTube, not sure if that's the 76H3658 or not.

I can confirm that the upgraded VRM I need is the 76H3658, which is a Semtech MP55C-3.3-2.8 VRM.
There are none available: https://www.recycledgoods.com/semtech-mp55c-3 … odule-2-xv-vrm/

Perhaps my only hope now is to upgrade to the Pentiun 200Mhz non-MMX. At least for now. Is there a retro exchange (somewhere where retro enthusiasts can see what others are looking for)?

In this YouTube video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imo7AdjtQE8
He installs a Pentium 200 MMX with the same non-VRM that I have on my board and it seems to work just fine. Albeit overvoltage but he's using a heatsink with a fan so... perhaps I can go that route. I've also read that @Nipedley above has done the same thing. (Overvoltage with a 233 MMX on the 2176 board.)