brostenen wrote on 2019-02-16, 16:59:

But why? Dos and Win98 gaming were always keyboard/mouse/analog joystick.

Playing 3D platformers like Tomb Raider or any racing game with a keyboard feels nasty 😜

That's why.

I do 3D platformers with a keyboard all the time. Racing games require an analog stick / wheel; a digital pad is of no particular help there.

I played through many an emulated game using just my keyboard, but I can't deny a joypad is superior, especially when more buttons get involved and n-key rollover becomes a problem.

peke12 wrote on 2020-11-12, 19:01:

I'm looking for the same thing. How did you find a USB PS controller? Or do you use a PS/USB converter?

It is precisely as he says:

cabezonnor wrote on 2019-02-16, 15:06:

i've bought a cheap Sony Playstation Classic System (these are getting cheaper everyday)

Specifically, one of these.

I doubt these are as easy to find anymore as they were a year or two ago; they were generally not very well-reviewed. I also bought one very cheaply principally because it included two decent USB controllers - but of course it is still boxed up and collecting dust.

Note that these are DirectInput devices; they wouldn't work with Windows 98 otherwise. That means you cannot use them with XInput games that expect an XBox 360 contoller (or a compatible device) without using a wrapper like x360ce. In that regard a PS-to-USB adapter may be superior – the first one I can think of is https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/psx_to_usb/index.php , but it is of course rather expensive.

dr_st wrote on 2020-11-12, 19:58:

. Racing games require an analog stick / wheel; a digital pad is of no particular help there.

My life playing Mario Kart musta been a lie then 😎

It all boils down to, what individual people are used to, I play 4-way movement plus some action button games all with keyboard cursor buttons and Ctrl/Alt or A/Z or whatever, and with a classic NES/SNES/PS Original controller.

but everything that needs more control and maybe an analog control of somekind, then only mouse + keyboard. I have tried with a controller, but it just does not work for me. My console days were a post soviet NES Famiclone and then Wolfenstein 3D/DooM with only keyboard, and i have never really had any consoles, if you don not count a hacked Sony PSP, that i used mainly for emulators.

Jorpho wrote on 2020-11-12, 20:41:

I played through many an emulated game using just my keyboard, but I can't deny a joypad is superior, especially when more butto […]
Show full quote

I played through many an emulated game using just my keyboard, but I can't deny a joypad is superior, especially when more buttons get involved and n-key rollover becomes a problem.

peke12 wrote on 2020-11-12, 19:01:

I'm looking for the same thing. How did you find a USB PS controller? Or do you use a PS/USB converter?

It is precisely as he says:

cabezonnor wrote on 2019-02-16, 15:06:

i've bought a cheap Sony Playstation Classic System (these are getting cheaper everyday)

Specifically, one of these.

I doubt these are as easy to find anymore as they were a year or two ago; they were generally not very well-reviewed. I also bought one very cheaply principally because it included two decent USB controllers - but of course it is still boxed up and collecting dust.

Note that these are DirectInput devices; they wouldn't work with Windows 98 otherwise. That means you cannot use them with XInput games that expect an XBox 360 contoller (or a compatible device) without using a wrapper like x360ce. In that regard a PS-to-USB adapter may be superior – the first one I can think of is https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/psx_to_usb/index.php , but it is of course rather expensive.

Ah, my mistake. it is a ps remake. I overlooked that. anyway, thanks for the info.
I'd like one to play tomb raider on my win98 pc. A pity they didn't make them with analog sticks included.

Duouk2000 wrote on 2019-02-17, 18:07:

I'm not sure what you mean when you say people don't know how to use a keyboard. They may both be digital but a dpad provides much better control than arrow keys for platformers and the like. Controling Lara in Tomb Raider feels much more intuitive with face and shoulder buttons as well.

I've never played any Tomb Raider game for any significant duration with anything other than a keyboard, so for me personally using a gamepad for Tomb Raider is a major handicap. I've tried playing Tomb Raider 1-5 on various consoles and just find a gamepad so clumsy to use in comparison.

A stark contrasting Tomb Raider related example that comes to mind though, is when they released Angel of Darkness and quite clearly tailored the game towards gamepad+analogue sticks usage, with Keyboard & Mouse as an afterthought. That game was horrible to control with a keyboard when it first came out, as a simple left/right movement would move Lara crazily off-centre, making jumps a lot trickier. It took a couple of patches before it finally became playable once again, with more accurate keyboard controls.

Legend onwards may as well be played with a gamepad though, as the controls on those games are much more forgiving, coupled with the games' more linear nature.

I've never used gamepads and even bought one in early 2000s to get used to it... failed miserably. 🤣 I used/use only keyboard and mouse... and for Atari/Amiga only true joysticks. I even have Sega mega drive and I'm pretty bad with gamepad 😐

I had a friend back then that would play PC Need For Speed II with a gamepad 🤣

SodaSuccubus wrote on 2020-11-12, 19:17:

brostenen wrote on 2019-02-16, 16:59:

But why? Dos and Win98 gaming were always keyboard/mouse/analog joystick.

Playing 3D platformers like Tomb Raider or any racing game with a keyboard feels nasty 😜

That's why.

I never saw anyone use gamepads, gaming on PC, even during the XP days. We all used keyboards, except flight sims and other flying games. We used analog joysticks for flying games. Gamepads and controllers were as far as we saw them back then, something that was reserved for consoles.

Nobody complained about using keyboard and mouse for Tomb raider, racing games and other games. It was like the defacto thing to do. And that is the authentic gaming experience.

I'm surprised there is so much debate about whether controllers like this have a place in retro PC gaming. They might not have been universally adopted back in the day, but plenty existed:

And I don't even have the most famous one in my collection - the Gravis Gamepad.

Jorpho wrote on 2020-11-12, 20:41:

Note that these are DirectInput devices; they wouldn't work with Windows 98 otherwise.

For this reason, the Sony DualShock4 is also fully functional out of the box in Win98. It's great.

gamepads are good on side scrolling platfolorers

peke12 wrote on 2020-11-12, 19:01:

I'm looking for the same thing. How did you find a USB PS controller? Or do you use a PS/USB converter?

The Playstation Classic comes with two USB gamepads. Those are original sony-made so good quality.

I bought my Gravis for Jazz Jackrabbit specifically, but still used my keyboard for Doom and later Quake. No one laughed at me, I had only one friend, and they had an NES. As a nerd, I was at home playing games, not hanging out with others trying to be snobby about what I used. There were many uses for both, and later I got a sidewinder. Now I often use 360 controllers, or keyboards depending on the current title. Why does it have to be one or the other?

TimWolf wrote on 2020-11-15, 06:03:

I bought my Gravis for Jazz Jackrabbit specifically, but still used my keyboard for Doom and later Quake. No one laughed at me, I had only one friend, and they had an NES. As a nerd, I was at home playing games, not hanging out with others trying to be snobby about what I used. There were many uses for both, and later I got a sidewinder. Now I often use 360 controllers, or keyboards depending on the current title. Why does it have to be one or the other?

It's the whole point of PC gaming, isn't it! Every option in the world at your disposal. Do what you like.

D-Pad on Sony PS1-PS3 gamepads is horrible. Especially if you're stuck with only that option, like on classic PS1.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-11-15, 11:19:

D-Pad on Sony PS1-PS3 gamepads is horrible. Especially if you're stuck with only that option, like on classic PS1.

Really? I remember folks been slamming the D-Pad on Xbox 360 controllers. Are these equally bad in your experience?

360 D-PAD is bottom of the barrell stuff. PS1-PS3 is servicable (far better than the Competition Pro PC pad I recently purchased) but its a far cry from what you'd get with a NES\SNES\MD\Saturn controller.

Yep, Megadrive/Saturn and Nintendo pads are much better. Or something which was designed with these D-Pads in mind. Sony classic D-Pad just is quite awkward for doing diagonals, partly due to poor surface area.

Oh, yeah. I have a genuine Sega Saturn USB controller with the said-to-be-legendary d-pad. It does feel very good, although I am not sure I actually noticed it performing better. For sure it felt just as inadequate as the lower quality d-pads for Capcom's fighting games with their crazy diagonals, circles, and zig-zag motions.

D-pads on Playstation controllers are completely awful, even today, in my opinion. The 4 direction buttons being separated instead of being in a complete cross-shape as in your typical Nintendo controllers, makes it feel very wrong to me when you're rolling your thumb from one direction to the next. Longer play sessions with any Playstation controller where I'm using the D-pad actually irritate my thumb. Plus the analog sticks on Playstation controllers are placed too close together. My thumbs bump into each other far too easily if I'm playing a game that requires the use of both analog sticks. Worst controller design ever in my opinion.

More on topic -- I also only ever used game pads for consoles back in the day. PC gaming was always keyboard/mouse. Having re-played many of those older games in more recent years with a gamepad (my DOS gamepad of choice is a PC ProPad) ... I wish my younger self had had one back in the 90s instead of being forced to use a keyboard. Much better experience for platformers, and other action-y games. I even strangely enjoy using one for first-person shooters, though keyboard+mouse is obviously superior there.

EDIT: Just wanted to add -- the only people I ever knew back in the 90's that used actual joysticks were those who played stuff like flight sims. I don't remember anyone back then who enjoyed using a joystick for playing stuff like platformers, etc on their PCs.